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Re[2]: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).
12.01.2008 12:55 | V. G. Boiko

Uvazhaemyi gospodin O.A.Bykovskii!

Posmotrel ya predlozhennye Vami kartinochki i pochital teksty Vashih soobshenii. U menya slozhilos' udruchayushee vpechatlenie kak o vyshenazvannom, tak i o Vas lichno. A vot prichiny, posluzhivshie etomu.

Esli by Vam bylo pyat'-shest' let ot rodu, to ditya v takom vozraste pod moshnym plastom osadochnyh otlozhenii babushkinyh skazok i, ne imeya eshe nikakogo obrazovaniya, mozhet obladat' stol' nezdorovoi, neprostitel'noi dlya vzroslogo cheloveka vpechatlitel'nost'yu. Vy zhe, ne stesnyayas', vystavlyaete sebya absolyutno nichego ne znayushim, nesposobnym na trezvoe real'noe myshlenie psihicheski bol'nym chelovekom. Uzh izvinite. No zachem Vam eto nuzhno?

A v sporah nichego ne znayushih lyudei, to est' lyudei, ne vladeyushih istinnoi informaciei, eta istina rodit'sya nikak ne mozhet! Nuzhno, kak minimum, snachala odnomu iz sporyashih etoi istinoi zaberemenet'. I naprasno Vy sebya teshite neobosnovannymi nadezhdami. Kstati, po chislu i kachestvu obsuzhdavshih Vashu temu uchastnikov mozhno srazu skazat', chto istinoi nikto iz nih ne beremen im vsem, kak i Vam samomu, nado ochen' mnogomu uchit'sya.

Prezhde, chem brat'sya interpretirovat' to, chto vidish' na fotografiyah iz kosmosa, chelovek dolzhen poluchit' fundamental'nye znaniya o materii, o material'nyh strukturah planetah, o Solnechnoi sisteme, o Zemle, v konce koncov. Zemlya lezhit u nas pod nogami, ne nado nikuda letet' i mozhno vse potrogat' i dazhe polizat'.

Znaete Vy, naprimer, pochemu kosmicheskie ob'ekty Solnechnoi sistemy imeyut distancii drug ot druga v strogom sootvetstvii s opredelennym zakonom i, takim obrazom, zanimayut strogo opredelennye orbity? Ili Vy znaete, pochemu na Zemle 70% poverhnosti zanimayut vody okeanov, a na drugih planetah etogo net? A mozhet byt' Vy znaete, chto takoe zhizn' i gde ee konechnyi produkt? V chem zdes' smysl-istina?

Mars, kak i drugie planety Solnechnoi sistemy, obladaya na svoei orbite svoimi specificheskimi kachestvami, imeet i svoyu specificheskuyu funkciyu v etoi sisteme. Eta funkciya ne svyazana s zhizn'yu na Marse (a tol'ko s zhizn'yu na Zemle!), poetomu na nem net i nikogda ne bylo okeanov vody (imeyushei takzhe specificheskuyu funkciyu, ne izvestnuyu nauke!). Poetomu na nem nikogda ne bylo i voobshe nevozmozhna zhizn' v zemnom ee ponimanii. Bolee togo, Mars ne poterpit popytok importirovat' na nego zhizn' v ser'eznyh masshtabah.

Poverhnostnyi grunt (geologicheskie formy) Marsa ne sil'no otlichaetsya ot zemnogo, odnako iz-za specificheskih osobennostei planety i ee funkcii na Marse imeyutsya i nesvoistvennye Zemle formy ih vneshnego material'nogo vyrazheniya. Pri etom poverhnost' Marsa iz-za etih ego specificheskih vyrazhenii stimuliruet ne tol'ko izmenenie rel'efa poverhnosti, no i peremesheniya po poverhnosti otdel'nyh, dovol'no krupnyh fragmentov i elementov. I zdes' slabyi i boleznenno vpechatlitel'nyi razum imeet shirochaishee pole dlya skazochnyh fantazii i videnii!

A normal'nomu cheldoveku nado vsego lish' real'no dumat'.

• Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 9.11.2007 20:18, 3.8 KBait, otvetov: 73) Bolee chem strannye kamni (Spirit, Opportunity). Vse pred'yavlyaemye fotografii i panoramy tochno sootvetstvuyut originalam NASA (adres stat'i http://tonos.ru/ articles/marslife). Strannost' fotografii zaklyuchaetsya v tom chto, nekotorye kamni udivitel'no pohozhi na zhivyh sushestv (ne gumanoidy i voobshe ne zemnogo vida, no vse zhe eto ne prosto kamni, a organizovannaya materiya). Sovershenno yasno, chto rech' ne idet o belkovoi forme zhizni. Kakaya imenno? I deistvitel'no li eto strannye kamni, a ne obychnye bulyzhniki iz bazal'ta ili peremeshannaya brekchiya i est' sut' nashego soobsheniya. V stat'e strannyh kamnei gorazdo bol'she (Zhivotnye Marsa http://tonos.ru/articles/marslife). Poslednie panoramy sdelannye Spiritom. Oct 30, 2007 ( sol 1359) Obratim vnimanie na dva stranno pohozhih kamnya: odin v centre panoramy, vtoroi (tochno takoi zhe) sprava i na perednem plane. (eto pohozhie, no raznye kamni) Fotografii na vsyakii sluchai zadublirovany. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2371/1...2a71_o.jpg http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?...436&size=o Nalichie ryadom dvuh pohozhih kamnei, slozhnoi neobychnoi formy, usilivaetsya tem, chto ranee osen'yu Spirit uzhe fotografiroval analogichnye po forme kamni nahodyashiesya v neskol'ko otlichnom polozhenii -pozah. Esli predpolozhit' chto otrostok speredi eto nekii hobot to dal'she kak v stat'e mozhno predpolozhit' chto eto neobychnoe sredstvo peremesheniya, (psevdo noga), pomogayushaya peremesheniyu kamnya-zhivotnogo. Sravnivaya fotografii osen'-leto vse stanovitsya na svoe mesto i legko otozhdestvlyaetsya mezhdu soboi (raznye kamni s odnim i tem zhe sushestvom). http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/...age004.jpg http://www.sciteclibrary.ru/ris-stat/...age048.jpg Krome etogo fotografiya kamnya pohozhego na cherep http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonhe...431738030/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonhe...et-528086/ legko sovmeshaetsya s dannoi ideei kamnyami-sushestvami v tom smysle, chto otrostok-hvost-hobot yavlyaetsya estestvennym prodolzheniem hryasha vidimogo mezhdu glaznicami i kak by yavlyayushegosya hryashom osnovaniem hobota. Vse eto tem bolee pravdopodobno, chto kamni slony imeyut dostatochno slozhnuyu, no funkcional'nuyu formu i v ogromnom kolichestve popadayut v kadr fotokamer Spirita. Bukval'no zapolnyaya vse zadnie plany panoramy. Ssylki NASA, na kamni privedennye vyshe (originaly NASA). Obshaya ssylka NASA, znaya den' i god legko naiti nuzhnuyu fotografiyu Spirita. http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/spirit.html Kak pol'zovat'sya, vydelyaete den', zatem knopka snizu View Selected Sol. Ssylki NASA na tri strannyh dnya raboty Spirita (voobshe govorya v 8 chastyah rekomenduemoi stat'i 800 fotografii, rovno stol'ko zhe i strannyh ob'ektov). Spirit Oct 30, 2007 ( sol 1359) http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galler...p1359.html Spirit October 2, 2005 Sol 621 http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galler..._p621.html http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galler...4L5M1.HTML Spirit Mar 23, 2007 ( sol 1144) http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galler...p1144.html http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galler...36L7M1.JPG Kak izvestno Spirit imeet na panoramnoi kamere 7 fil'trov na kazhdyi iz dvuh imeyushihsya ob'ektiva (7*2). Vse fil'try ispol'zuyutsya kraine redko. Otsyuda cvet eto sintez iz imeyusheisya informacii. T. e. cvet ne sootvetstvuet real'nomu, no vse ostal'noe eto podlinnye fotografii NASA. Ponyatno, chto cvet ne sootvetstvoval by i pri lyuboi kombinacii fil'trov, poskol'ku sama real'nost' v dannom sluchae uslovna. Nadeyus' ni kto na forume ne somnevaetsya v podlinnosti ishodnogo materiala NASA. Adres stat'i na TONOS http://tonos.ru/articles/marslife http://tonos.ru/articles/marsanimals Adres stat'i na STL (v nachale stat'i Zhivotnye Marsa, est' ssylki na 8 chastei v kotoryh napominayu razmesheno 800 fotografii) http://www.sciteclibrary.ru/rus/catal.../8617.html Vse fotografii podlinnye. OB
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 11.11.2007 7:55, 5.9 KBait) Na etih snimkah mikroskop Spirita pokazyvaet poverhnost' kamnya imeet mikrootverstiya (obolochka kamnei po fotografiyam 3-5 sm, freza uglublyalas' ne bolee 1 sm). Neobhodimo fotografirovat' kamni sever-yug, izuchat' podoshvu (nalichie harakternoi odnotipnoi podoshvy). http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...UP2400L5M1.JPG Poverhnost' kamnya pod mikroskopom (ne etogo kamnya, ryadom). http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...UP2936M2M1.JPG Spirit Sep 29, 2007 ( sol 1329) http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1362/...c0d9bd.jpg?v=0 Poskol'ku gipoteza zhizni na Marse kasaetsya temy po ponyatnym prichinam spornoi, to neskol'ko otzyvov, prichem dlinnye obsuzhdeniya tak zhe kak prishedshie po mylu mnoi ne privodyatsya. Mneniya raznye. Tak vyglyadit obsuzhdenie gipotezy marsianskoi kamenoi zhizni (prakticheski) na forumah, Novosti Kosmonavtiki i TONOS. Eto chto by po vozmozhnosti izbezhat' povtorenii, mneniyami. . Novosti Kosmonavtiki. //////Mne tak, naprimer, eta gipoteza ochen' nravit'sya i ochen' by hotelos', chto by ona hotya by v kakoi-to chasti okazalas' verna. V sporah rozhdaetsya istina, mozhet i zdes' rodit'sya. Vopros za schet kakoi energii idet razvitie ob'ektov?////// /////6peg xoTb u pa3gpa>kaeT - Ho cTuMy/\upyeT...///// //////A u menya v chem-to Bykovskii dazhe vyzyvaet uvazhenie. Vyskazyvat' svoi idei kogda obshestvo vokrug vertit pal'cem u viska - eto nado smelost' imet'. Ne kazhdyi reshitsya protiv vetra .. . Konechno, v zhizn' kamnei mne i samomu chto-to ne ochen' veritsya. Proishodyashemu na kartinkah mozhno naiti bolee real'nye ob'yasneniya. No, svet velik, vsyakoe mozhet byt'... Fenomen zhizni my imeli udovol'stvie nablyudat' tol'ko na odnoi planete i eto ne dostatochnaya dlya statistiki vyborka. Pochemu my obobshaem, chto zhizn' na Marse (esli ona tam est') dolzhna byt' pohozha na zemnuyu po forme i po metabolizmu?///// /////Sverhnovyi pisal(a): Konechno, v zhizn' kamnei mne i samomu chto-to ne ochen' veritsya...///// ////Vot na glazah, da, proishodit (proizoshla? ) celaya real'naya nauchnaya revolyuciya, svyazannaya, kstati, s "zhizn'yu na Marse", a obsuzhdaetsya pochemu-to vsyakii okolooprovergatel'skii hlam...//// /////Ne, ya ne protiv vnimatel'nogo vglyadyvaniya v videoinformaciyu s Marsa, no eto vse deistvitel'no tol'ko "zhizn' kamnei", ne bolee togo Interesnaya, da, no "zhizn'yu" yavlyayushayasya tol'ko v metaforicheskom smysle////// /////Ne vse chto dvizhetsya e ... zhivet...////// Mnenie moderatora NK /////Vse bol'she cheshutsya ruki perekinut' etu temu v ChD. Prosto nikak ne mogu opredelit' - boleznennye eto posty ili ne ochen'.////// Forum TONOS //////Est' logika, kotoroi sleduet trezvo priderzhivt'sya////// /////Eslib zhizn' byla sama NASA uzhe by po teleku zakrichala chto mol zhizn' nashli i t.d. ni chego podobnogo vodu by otyskat', a oni pro zhizn' bazaryat.///// /////Spasibo za foto - interesno bylo posmotret'.///// ////Interesnaya tochka zreniya. Vyglyadit krasivo, no somnitel'na.///// //////Sudya po krasote, eto nesomnenno zhizn' ili nechto shozhee s neyu. Nekaya forma organizacii materii privodyashaya k mestnomu snizheniyu entropii. Nekotorye iz etih sushestv yavno samobytny i dolzhny rassmatrivat'sya kak lichnosti. Neobhodimo vvesti moratorii na lyuboe vozdeistvie nashei tehniki sposobnoe povredit' kamennuyu zhizn' Marsa. Sudya po namekam soderzhashimisya v "Ural'skih skazah" Bazhova , nechto podobnoe dolzhno byt' i u nas na Zemle. A.Il'in, zhurnalist, "Yunyi tehnik".////// Nu nakonec-to! Est' lyudi, kotorye ne bez osnovanii schitayut, chto na Marse otkryta zhizn', i dovol'no burnaya. Kogda ne znaesh' chto ishesh' otkroi poshire glaza, i uvidish'. Ooo, Dina, oni tam stol'ko interesnogo na fotografiyah razglyadeli - zakachaesh'sya. Chital, kak priklyuchencheskuyu povest'. Kraine smelaya gipoteza, s etogo ugla zhizn' na Marse ne rassmatrivali.... Dochital Nu voobshe ideya real'naya. hotya vot tot fakt, chto zhizn' ne obyazana byt' chelovekoobraznoi, et oni pravy. Nado budet v drugih mestah poiskat' podtverzhdeniya.. a razve kamni s Marsa ne izuchalis'? Imho bred, potomuchto ser'eznye issledovateli obyazatel'no podelilis' by svoimi sobrazheniyami, pochemu do sih por eto ne bylo obnaruzhenol, kakie osobennosti zhizni ne pozvolli ee uvidet' pod mikroskopom. Hotya ne, stat'ya tru. Interesno. Stat'ya ponravilas'. HZ vse eto konechno, no vot stereotipchikov u nas hvataet. A fotki i vpryam' zabavnye. mda.....sat'ya napisana yavno ne uchenym chelovekom, a vsego lish' "lyubitelem" strashilok i inoplanetnyh zahvatchikov v stile peredachi "neob'yasnimo, no fakt" skazhu chestno, vs ne chitala,lish' probezhala mel'kom po tekstu. srazu brosilis' v glaza "professionalizm" i "obrazovannost'" vayatelya etogo genial'nogo proizvedeniya . "ne kto zhe ne stanet utverzhdat',".....afftar, uchi grammatiku! P.S. navernoe vse zhe stoit prochitat' stat'yu vsyu, eto opredelnno skrasit trudovye budni na nedelyu kak minimum obaldnnye fotki s marsa Nauchis' chitat' mezhdu strok i ty poznaesh' istinu! Novyi vzglyad na zhizn' na Marse, zastavlyaet zadumat'sya... V stat'e O. Bykovskogo privedeno mnogo interesneishih fotografii poverhnosti Marsa Etot pol'zovatel' skazal Spasibo Severyanin za eto poleznoe soobshenie: Soprovozhdaetsya galereei fotografii i s analizom nalichiya priznakov zhizni na Marse. Hot' i dlinno - na 4-h stranicah, no, po-moemu, interesno. I ne obyazatel'no so vsem napisannym soglashat'sya! Esli podhodit' k stat'e s filosovskoi tochki zreniya, to vozmozhno vse i eta teoriya imeet pravo na svoe sushestvovanie, hotya dlya sebya ya tak i ne ponyal ubeditel'nogo principa biokamneobrazovaniya. Smushaet drugoe: fotografii sdelany kak ya ponyal marsohodom, radius deistviya marsohoda ne velik, a stalo byt' fotografii mozhno schitat' chastnym sluchaem marsianskogo lanadshafta. Priroda dannyh kamnei ne mozhet (iz prochitannogo materiala) rasprostranyat'sya na vsyu poverhnost' planety. Lyubuyu gepotizu nado proveryat', a dlya etogo nuzhny celenapravlennye mery. Sudya po fotografiyam, chto-to zhivoe tam yavno est' Vse-taki, prochitaite stat'yu Kakaya zhizn', nu ya ponmayu v NASSA, tam preimushestvenno ne biologi, im golovu morochat
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 17.11.2007 14:57, 9.3 KBait) Eti strannye shariki... Zhal' chto ssylki neaktivny. Nizhe est' ssylki, na fotografii sharikov-gematitov iz kratera Igl eto pervye mesyacy prebyvaniya Opportuniti na Marse (2004g). Predlagayu obratit' vnimanie na evolyuciyu sharikov. Tak vot, uvidev na fotografiyah shariki na kamnyah eksperty NASA, (kak dumayu i my vse) srazu zhe zametili eti samye sinie krasivye shariki. I ni kto togda ne somnevalsya v tom chto eti shariki est' gematity. Sobstvenno drugogo nikto ne zhdal kak i to chto poristye kamni eto kuski lavy. Nizhe nekotorye fotografii chetyreh letnei davnosti, otkroite hotya by nekotorye ne polenites' ili mozhno peremestit'sya na AstraGalaktiku gde ssylki aktivny. Rannyaya vesna Feb 28, 2004 at Eagle crater, Meridiani Plain, Mars http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/8/image013.jpg Tak vyglyadyat shariki cherez tri mesyaca v nachale marsianskogo leta Opportunity May 31, 2004 ( sol 125) Ekonom rezhim http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/8/image032.jpg adres na stranichku http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardawho/273892406/ Fotografii sdelany primerno v odnom meste s raznicei v tri mesyaca. (Otkrytye shariki est' i zimoi i letom, no pritoplenye tol'ko zimoi i vesnoi, letom takih net.) Eto dopolnitel'nye ssylki (Ssylki mozhno propustit' do poyasnitel'nogo teksta). Ssylka na stranichku iz arhiva NASA http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20040302a.html Otdel'naya fotografiya iz etogo spiska. http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20040302a/16-jg-02-mi1-B035R1_br.jpg Krupnyi plan http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20040302a/15-jg-01-elcap-texture-B038R1_br.jpg (fotografii v ekonom rezhime v maksimal'nom razreshenii mozhno otkryt' po verhnei ssylke) 9 Fevralya Str. iz arhiva http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20040209a.html Foto http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20040209a/ 1M129515692EFF0312P2939M2M1_mi_RobtE_full-B016R1.jpg 12 FEVRALYa 2004 Str. iz arhiva http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20040212a.html Fotografiya http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20040212a/06-ml-2-rock-B019R1.jpg 28 fevralya 2004 g. http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=4122284&size=o 3 marta Foto http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20040303a/xpe_el_cap_2_holes-B039R1.jpg Panorama krupnym planom visyashih sharikov http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20040323a/LastChance_F-B058R1.jpg Stranica arhiva http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20040323a.html Panorama kamnei v kratere Igl. http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20040303a/xpe_el_cap_2_holes-B039R1.jpg Kommentarii. Tak vot, srazu nikomu i v golovu ne prishlo gadat' chto eto, da, i ne moglo priiti. No, teper' po proshestvii vremeni, kogda u nas est' mnogie sotni tysyach fotografii pochti za chetyre goda raboty, posmotrite vnimatel'no i otmet'te sleduyushee. Rannei vesnoi na fotografiyah shariki matovye, mnogo zatoplennyh kak by rozhdayushihsya. Letom i osen'yu blestyashie, krasivye polnost'yu oformlennye shariki i TOL'KO NA POVERHNOSTI. Prichem hot' poverhu kamnya hot' na bokovoi stenke, shariki visyat edva kasayas'. Visyat kak yagody na kustah ili kapel'ki smoly na stvolah derev'ev. Poetomu esli by byla sdelana bokovaya fotografiya skaly ili drugogo kamnya dlya sluchaya spelyh, sozrevshih sharikov to eto stalo by prosto brosat'sya v glaza t. e. osoboe sostoyanie yarkih, ideal'nyh sharikov. Pri sushestvuyushem tol'ko pryamom rakurse eto menee zametno. Dalee, vnizu na peske my takzhe vidim shariki bol'shinstvo polnost'yu otkrytye. A ved' v prisypannom ili polnost'yu zasypannom sostoyanii sharikov dolzhno byt' gorazdo chashe. Soglasimsya, v sluchae versii eroziinogo vyvetrivaniya gematitnyh sharikov, to process erozii dlitel'nyi (prichem pri sil'nom uvelichenii sledov erozii ne vidno). I esli s sharikami nichego ne sluchilos' pri ih yakoby dlitel'nom vyvetrivanii, to chto osobennogo moglo by proizoiti pod sloem pyli? Togda kak fotografii rvov prodelannyh kolesami roverov pokazyvayut pod sloem pyli i peska sharikov net. Hotya skazannoe konechno nichego ne govorit krome neobhodimosti proverki. To chto shariki menyayut vid i cvet po sezonu samo soboi vidyat i v NASA. A v dannoe vremya gematit obrazovyvat'sya na Marse ne mozhet, poskol'ku, dlya etogo processa nuzhna voda, a ee ponyatnoe delo net i byt' ne mozhet. Dalee. Voz'mem poslednie fotografii vblizi i ryadom s kraterom Viktoriya i sravnim s fotografiyami na ego vnutrennih sklonah (Opportuniti 4 nedeli kak vnutri kratera). Sklon kratera Viktoriya Opportunity Sep 14, 2007 ( sol 1294) http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1483821263&size=o Pri obychnom skatyvanii sharikov po sklonu, imeyushiesya na sklone uglubleniya dolzhny byt' zapolneny plotnee, chem bugry i vozvysheniya. Shariki yavno izbegayut uglublenii, chto mozhno ob'yasnit' kak izbeganie zatenennyh mest. Skoree vsego oni voznikayut-obrazuyutsya-rastut imenno v teh mestah gde i nahodyatsya v dannoe vremya. Na fotografiyah vidno, chto staryi sled posle 3-4 mesyacev provetrivaniya snova pokryvaetsya sharikami. Staryi sled, Opportunity Jul 15 - Aug 4, 2007 ( sol 1234 - 1254 ) http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardawho/1041371567/ Opportunity Aug 4,15,21, 2007 ( sol 1254 1265 1270) http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardawho/1260309822/ Tak vot vblizi kratera my vidim nepreryvnyi pokrov iz sharikov. Na vnutrennih sklonah vverhu po kromke sklona sharikov znachitel'no men'she no est', vnizu pochti net, a te chto est' uzhe v drugom sostoyanii. Yavno svalivshiesya sverhu, pobitye i polomannye. No, ved' soglasno gematitnoi versii, eto nepravil'no. Na Zemle gematity eto prosto zalezhi i pri dannyh usloviyah kratera Viktoriya postepenno skatilis' by vniz, po doroge zapolnyaya vse treshiny i uglubleniya. Voznikayut voprosy. 1. Pochemu shariki tol'ko na poverhnosti, a v pochve net. 2. Pochemu v odin sloi? 3. Pochemu vnizu sklona kratera Viktoriya sharikov namnogo men'she chem na verhu? Ved' oni mogut skatyvat'sya tol'ko vniz, a ne naoborot. Udivitel'no, no net ni odnoi fotografii, gde by byl snyat (a voobshe horosho i pravil'no pod mikroskopom) sledy rovera na tverdom grunte. Ya imeyu v vidu, chto esli by sravnit' diametry pyaten razdavlennyh sharikov i nahodyashihsya ryadom celyh, to mozhno bylo by primerno ocenit' ih prochnost'. No takih snimkov net. A esli by Opportuniti vstrechaya uchastki s ogolennym zhestkim gruntom, periodicheski delal takie snimki, to voznikla by vozmozhnost' sravnit' izmenenie prochnosti sharikov zima-vesna-leto. V 8 chasti ya privel dostatochno mnogo fotografii sharikov i eshe bol'she ssylok. http://tonos.ru/articles/marslife8 Nizhe fotografii iznutri kratera Viktoriya i fotografii kamnei snyatye Spiritom pod mikroskopom (poverhnost' kamnei kak oplavlennaya i vsyudu otverstiya, no ne ot erozii), Opportunity Sep 14, 2007 ( sol 1294) http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1500164852&size=o Ekonom http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2250/1500177842_cc36304c65.jpg?v=0 Verhnyaya chast' sklona, sharikov na sklone men'she, no oni est'. V verhnei chasti sklona shariki est' dazhe na kamnyah, no na peschano-pylevyh uchastkah v yamah ih net. Hotya yamy zapolneny pyl'yu eto po logike prosto gotovye lovushki dlya sharikov. Otsyuda predstavlyaetsya logichnym chto vnizu sharikov net glavnym obrazom iz-za vetrovoi teni i sootvetstvenno otsutstviya potokov pyli, kotorye ochevidno neobhodimy dlya ih obrazovaniya. http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20071015a/1F245542955EFF8736P1151L0M1.jpg http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/p/1321/1P245461419EFF8730P2377L2M1.JPG Na nizhe privedennoi fotografii shariki kak budto skatyvalis' po treshine. No na vid eto uzhe povrezhdennye, deformirovannye shariki. Nalichie takih sharikov vnizu, tol'ko podtverzhdaet versiyu ih obrazovaniya-rosta vverhu sklona, a zatem po mere otmiraniya skatyvaniya vniz. A nebol'shoe kolichestvo sharikov vnizu, priznak ih nedolgovechnosti (raspadayutsya bystree chem nakaplivayutsya). http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/m/1322/1M245542222EFF8736P2976M2M1.JPG Opportunity Oct 13, 2007 ( sol 1322) http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1763216709&size=o Napomnyu, chto ranee my utverzhdali chto vnizu sklona kratera Viktoriya sharikov net. Eto podtverdilos' v polnom vide, v tom smysle, chto sharikov malo i oni v sil'no povrezhdennom sostoyanii. Vse vyglyadit tak, kak esli by shariki rosli naverhu i po verhnei kaime kratera i popadali vniz posle skatyvaniya (dlya ih obrazovaniya neobhodim solnechnyi svet i potoki pyli). Takzhe mozhno ubedit'sya, chto vnizu tol'ko skativshiesya shariki, a celyh net. A nemnogo sharikov, po prichine ih nedolgovechnosti. Takim obrazom, shariki formiruyutsya na otkrytoi horosho produvaemoi i osveshennoi poverhnosti. Poetomu vulkany, meteority i gematity zdes' yavno ne prichem. - A, naskol'ko shariki zhivye neobhodimo proyasnit' v dal'neishem eksperimental'no. Naprimer, razdavit' shariki kolesami na zhestkoi poverhnosti (raznye i odinakovye, izmenenie sostoyaniya po sezonu), nakryt' ten'yu (nakryt' kamnem), sdvinut' v storonu, nasypat' holmik i t. p. http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/n/1329/1N246174815EFF8788P1675L0M1.JPG http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/n/1329/1N246176353EFF8788P0775R0M1.JPG Obratim vnimanie na mesto Opportuniti, spustilsya vsego-to, a sharikov kak vidim uzhe net Tak chto my dumaem o marsianah? Zhizn' eto ili nam tol'ko kazhetsya??
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 19.11.2007 8:41, 1.9 KBait, otvetov: 1) Rassmotrim 10 samyh krupnyh kamnei vstrechennyh Spiritom za 3.5 goda raboty. http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/7/image060.jpg http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/7/image086.jpg http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/7/image092.jpg http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/7/image102.jpg http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/7/image118.jpg http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/7/image127.jpg http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/7/image128.jpg http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/p/1344/2P245676681ESFAVFUP2400L5M1.JPG http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2371/1805443436_e77bdc2a71_o.jpg Napomnim, chto put' Spirita, uchityvaya bole menee chetkoe izobrazhenie (eto vpravo-vlevo 10 metrov), pozvolil issledovat' primerno 2-3 gektara ploshadi. http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/7/image013.jpg O kakoi podgonke pod zadannoe reshenie idet rech'? Vse kamni strannye. Esli by Spirit detal'no issledoval dva kvadratnyh kilometra, to strannyh kamnei bylo by tysyachi. No, govorit', chto iz mnozhestva fotografii nami vybrany tol'ko nuzhnye eto zakryvat' glaza na fakty. V tom to i delo, chto vseh etih kamnei ne dolzhno byt' voobshe (vybroshennaya meteoritami poroda dolzhna by imet' sloistuyu strukturu) a to chto my vidim inoe i naprimer nigde na Zemle byt' ne mozhet. Esli kto ni bud' obsledovav dva kvadratnyh kilometra v lyubom meste Zemli naidet hotya by tri fotografii marsianskih kamnei eto budet udivitel'no (ya zhivu v predgor'yah, rabotal na Kamchatke i ne vstrechal nichego pohozhego). Tak chto zhe i kto zhe formiruet na Marse takuyu strannuyu arhitekturu kamennogo landshafta? To chto ona strannaya eto fakt, esli ne zhizn' to chto?? No, do sih por u NASA, net dolzhnogo vnimaniya k dannym strannostyam, a u bol'shinstva Forumchan tol'ko igrivoe vospriyatie temy. My vidim polnomasshtabnuyu formu zhizni, vidim kraeshek, i u nas net zhelaniya razobrat'sya detal'no?? Stranno eto. Poskol'ku fotografii mnogo a interes k nim otsutstvuet.
• Re[2]: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 22.11.2007 18:03, 1.4 KBait) Naibolee lyubopytnoe iz stat'i (fotografii ochen' legkie). Marsianskii Begemot. http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/8/image001.jpg http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/8/image002.jpg http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/p/882/1P206481822EFF74AZP2780L7M1.JPG http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/opportunity_p881.html Kamennyi Grib. http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/7/image060.jpg Obratite vnimanie, est' vverh i na zadnem plane takoi zhe vyrastaet. Bor'ba Kamennogo Sliznyaka s Kamennym Gribom. http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/7/image062.jpg Udivitel'nogo bylo by gorazdo bol'she esli by snimali vblizi i v ikroskop glyadeli, no NASA ishet tol'ko sledy vody. http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/7/image084.jpg A ved' kamni deistvitel'no pustye! http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/7/image086.jpg http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/82/image002.jpg A eto chto ili kto? http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/7/image103.jpg http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/7/image104.jpg http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/8/image052.jpg http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/7/image106.jpg http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/82/image017.jpg Delo v tom chto vse eti kamni ryadom, vnimatel'no osmotreno ne bolee 2-3 gektarov ploshadi. Poslednie fotografii Spirita, vse mozhet byt' esli smotret' vnimatel'no. http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=2052118751&size=o http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=2052905138&size=o
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (gost' gost', 22.11.2007 21:06, 499 Bait)

  Nado otdat' dolzhnoe nablyudatel'nosti tak nazyvaemaya chernika na marse mozhet byt' neizvestnyi nam material vydelyaemyi iz marsa mozhet on legche i podymaetsya a na solnce i vetre menyaet svoi svoistva no na nekotoryh foto deistvitel'no kak trova rastet kstati ya nevidel snimkov v blizi etih kameshkov pod mikroskopom. Voobshe konechno obidno, chto samye interesnye foto prosto nepokazyvayut i my kak sobachki glodaem broshennye kostachki ya schitayu eti foto dostoyanie vsei zemli a ne grupki uchenyh v nasa!

• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (gost' gost', 22.11.2007 21:11, 460 Bait, otvetov: 2) V novostyah primerno 1.5 goda nazad pokazyvali reportazh i tam mel'kom pokazali tol'ko, chto prishedshie foto s marsa na nih byli izobrazheny krugi takoe vpechatlenie u menya slozhilos' chto eto byli gryazevye luzhi nigde bol'she ya etih foto nevidel da i v reportazhe pokazali proekcionnuyu dosku kuda postupali snimki v real'nom vremeni i imenno etot snimok privlek uchenogo kotoryi stal eti krugi obvadit' ukazkoi i neskryval udivleniya GDE ETI FOTO NASA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
• Re[2]: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (il'ya tihonov, 28.02.2008 17:32, 375 Bait, otvetov: 1)
  kak profan v istorii nashego mirozdaniya ,
  s vashego pozvoleniya ,zadayu vopros
  chto budet esli ot marsa , kak ot edimoi astronomicheskoi edinice, otnyat' deimos i fobos
  na skol'ko,Vy schitaete izmenilas' by orbita?
• Re[3]: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 29.02.2008 5:52, 310 Bait) Orbita Marsa s Deimosom i Fobosom ili bez nih ostanetsya toi zhe. Esli est' dopolnitel'nyi podtekst, napishite konkretno. Delo ne v malosti massy sputnikov Marsa, a v nezavisimosti odnogo ot drugogo. Esli ubrat' Lunu u Zemli, orbita Zemli tak zhe ne izmenitsya. Esli konechno "ubirat'" nezametno dlya zemlyan -:).
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 24.11.2007 7:14, 2.1 KBait) Gde eti fotografii ne znayu, no krugi na marsianskih luzhaikah est' zdes' http://tonos.ru/articles/marslife v 8 chasti http://tonos.ru/articles/marslife8 Risunok 35 http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/8/image035.jpg Udivitel'no drugoe, vse fotografii v obshem to kak eto ne stranno sootvetstvuyut koncepcii imenno kamenno- pylevoi formy zhizni, a ne zemnyh vidov. Ne vyzyvaet zhe ulybki poiski kostei dinozavrov analogichnyh zemnym vidam!!, pochemu zhe zhizn' na osnove imenno marsianskih uslovii, a ne zemnyh dolzhna vyzyvat' ironiyu :D . Ideya gematitov v otsutstvii vody smotritsya ne menee komichno-ekstravagantno. Po logike vse gipotezy podtverzhdayut ili oprovergayutsya eksperimental'no. Est' mikroskop v chem zhe delo?? Spirit ot potencial'no interesnogo ob'ekta v odnom metre. A forma nosa u ob'ekta tochno otvechaet funkcii rychaga - kamnekopalka, togo i glyadi shiny roveru prokolet. http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=2052118751&size=o A v dannoe vremya fotografii neobychnyh kamnei s raznicei vo vremeni net. Spirit i Opportunist chasto snimayut perekrestnym obrazom (kazhdyi estestvenno v svoem meste) ili izo dnya na den' odno i to zhe no tol'ko kogda v kadre net ob'ekta. Poetomu sil'no ne udivlyus' esli V NASA rabotaet cenzura na vse ne ob'yasnimoe k kotoromu, konechno otnositsya i peremeshenie kamnei. Nekotorye iz kotoryh yavno v stadii dvizheniya, naprimer uzhe pokazannyi http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/8/image048.jpg. Ya vizhu tri kamnya v cepochek. Pervyi podnyal hobot, vtoroi pogruzil i vozmozhno peremeshaetsya vpered. S drugoi storony melkoporistaya dyrochnaya poverhnost' u kamnei eto fakt, a u zemnyh valunov takogo net http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/m/1340/2M245323545EFFAVFUP2936M2M1.JPG Da i gematitnye shariki, otverstiya ryadom s nimi ne pohozhi ne na eroziyu ne na treshiny ot usyhaniya. Rannyaya vesna Feb 28, 2004 at Eagle crater, Meridiani Plain, Mars http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/8/image013.jpg No, v lyubom sluchae vse tochki nad I konechno mozhet rasstavit' tol'ko eksperiment, k kotoromu bez somneniya otnositsya fotografirovanie so vseh storon i vo vremeni.
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 26.11.2007 9:16, 1.4 KBait) Est' zhizn' na Marse, net zhizni - eto poka uchenym ne izvestno. My mozhem tol'ko rassmatrivat' kartinki pokazannye nam i stroit' predpolozheniya... Mesto kasaniya amortizacionnoi obolochki Spirita http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/7/image016.jpg Posle posadki verhnii sloi, kak otmetilo NASA, dergalsya i shevelilsya, smeshayas' kak celoe (nazvali volshebnyi kover). Mesta kasaniya amortizacionnogo shara Opportuniti, izmenili cvet - pokrasneli. Grunt izmenil cvet pri lyubom mehanicheskom vozdeistvii (sled rovera, sled ot frezy). http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/6/image032.jpg http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/6/image039.jpg Pod posadochnoi platformoi, grunt povelo chto voobshe to samo po sebe stranno uchityvaya chto esli schitat' grunt prosto peskom. http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/6/image037.jpg Marsianskii Krab http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/animals/image002.jpg Brosaetsya v glaza, obshaya celesoobraznost' i razmernost' konechnostei, a tak zhe to chto golova yavno razvernuta v nashu storonu (do gradusa). Levaya kleshnya (ot Kraba) v sostoyanii opory, kleshnya so storony rovera pripodnyata v harakterno zashitno-ugrozhayushei poze. Pancir' kak zashitnaya plastina na spine govorit o nasyshennoi polnoi priklyucheniyami i real'nymi sobytiyami zhizni. My chto ne verim svoim glazam?? Nu, opyat' zhe verim ne verim eto ne nauchnyi podhod, pravil'nyi podhod obyazyvaet uchityvat' vse varianty
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (gost' gost', 27.11.2007 18:19, 46 Bait) Ssylki po krugam ustareli pros'ba skinut' eshe!
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 28.11.2007 7:29, 1.1 KBait, otvetov: 3) Krugi na marsianskih luzhaikah. http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=328175199&size=o http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1964438&size=o V 8 chasti stat'i Na Marse naidena zhizn'! http://tonos.ru/articles/marslife (chast' 8) Privedeno neskol'ko cvetnyh fotografii luzhaek i mnozhestvo fotografii marsianskih sharikov. Tak zhe napomnyu chto kazhdyi samostoyatel'no mozhet sintezirovat' cvetnye fotografii iz cherno-belyh pri pomoshi fotoshopa ili drugogo redaktora Ssylka NASA (ssylka na fotografii sdelannye vsemi fotokamerami roverov). No brat' neobhodimo tol'ko fotografii panoramnoi kamery. Panoramnaya kamera imeet 7 fil'trov na kazhdyi ob'ektiv. Zamenyaya vybranuyuyu cherno-beluyu na sootvetstvuyushuyu ei po cvetu (pri pomoshi redaktora cveta) i sovmeshaya so vtoroi i tret'ei cherno-beloi vzyatoi v zadanom cvete vy mozhete poluchit' krasivuyu kolekciyu cvetnyh snimkov. http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/spirit.html Nizhe ssylka instrukciya kak sintezirovat' cvet samostoyatel'no http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/edr_filename_key.html Vyhod na nee cherez (How to decode the image filenames)
• >> Re[2]: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (V. G. Boiko, 12.01.2008 12:55, 4.3 KBait, otvetov: 1)

  Uvazhaemyi gospodin O.A.Bykovskii!

  Posmotrel ya predlozhennye Vami kartinochki i pochital teksty Vashih soobshenii. U menya slozhilos' udruchayushee vpechatlenie kak o vyshenazvannom, tak i o Vas lichno. A vot prichiny, posluzhivshie etomu.

  Esli by Vam bylo pyat'-shest' let ot rodu, to ditya v takom vozraste pod moshnym plastom osadochnyh otlozhenii babushkinyh skazok i, ne imeya eshe nikakogo obrazovaniya, mozhet obladat' stol' nezdorovoi, neprostitel'noi dlya vzroslogo cheloveka vpechatlitel'nost'yu. Vy zhe, ne stesnyayas', vystavlyaete sebya absolyutno nichego ne znayushim, nesposobnym na trezvoe real'noe myshlenie psihicheski bol'nym chelovekom. Uzh izvinite. No zachem Vam eto nuzhno?

  A v sporah nichego ne znayushih lyudei, to est' lyudei, ne vladeyushih istinnoi informaciei, eta istina rodit'sya nikak ne mozhet! Nuzhno, kak minimum, snachala odnomu iz sporyashih etoi istinoi zaberemenet'. I naprasno Vy sebya teshite neobosnovannymi nadezhdami. Kstati, po chislu i kachestvu obsuzhdavshih Vashu temu uchastnikov mozhno srazu skazat', chto istinoi nikto iz nih ne beremen im vsem, kak i Vam samomu, nado ochen' mnogomu uchit'sya.

  Prezhde, chem brat'sya interpretirovat' to, chto vidish' na fotografiyah iz kosmosa, chelovek dolzhen poluchit' fundamental'nye znaniya o materii, o material'nyh strukturah planetah, o Solnechnoi sisteme, o Zemle, v konce koncov. Zemlya lezhit u nas pod nogami, ne nado nikuda letet' i mozhno vse potrogat' i dazhe polizat'.

  Znaete Vy, naprimer, pochemu kosmicheskie ob'ekty Solnechnoi sistemy imeyut distancii drug ot druga v strogom sootvetstvii s opredelennym zakonom i, takim obrazom, zanimayut strogo opredelennye orbity? Ili Vy znaete, pochemu na Zemle 70% poverhnosti zanimayut vody okeanov, a na drugih planetah etogo net? A mozhet byt' Vy znaete, chto takoe zhizn' i gde ee konechnyi produkt? V chem zdes' smysl-istina?

  Mars, kak i drugie planety Solnechnoi sistemy, obladaya na svoei orbite svoimi specificheskimi kachestvami, imeet i svoyu specificheskuyu funkciyu v etoi sisteme. Eta funkciya ne svyazana s zhizn'yu na Marse (a tol'ko s zhizn'yu na Zemle!), poetomu na nem net i nikogda ne bylo okeanov vody (imeyushei takzhe specificheskuyu funkciyu, ne izvestnuyu nauke!). Poetomu na nem nikogda ne bylo i voobshe nevozmozhna zhizn' v zemnom ee ponimanii. Bolee togo, Mars ne poterpit popytok importirovat' na nego zhizn' v ser'eznyh masshtabah.

  Poverhnostnyi grunt (geologicheskie formy) Marsa ne sil'no otlichaetsya ot zemnogo, odnako iz-za specificheskih osobennostei planety i ee funkcii na Marse imeyutsya i nesvoistvennye Zemle formy ih vneshnego material'nogo vyrazheniya. Pri etom poverhnost' Marsa iz-za etih ego specificheskih vyrazhenii stimuliruet ne tol'ko izmenenie rel'efa poverhnosti, no i peremesheniya po poverhnosti otdel'nyh, dovol'no krupnyh fragmentov i elementov. I zdes' slabyi i boleznenno vpechatlitel'nyi razum imeet shirochaishee pole dlya skazochnyh fantazii i videnii!

  A normal'nomu cheldoveku nado vsego lish' real'no dumat'.

• Re[3]: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 16.01.2008 6:44, 257 Bait) Uvazhaemyi V. G. Boiko, Vami proveden glubokii analiz teksta. Osobo otmechu pravilo Ticiusa Bode (kvantovo-uporyadochennoe raspolozhenie orbit planet). Tak zhe kak Vashe zamechanie o poverhnostnom raspolozhenii sharikov budet nepremenno proverenno NASA. OB
• Re[2]: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (E. L. Romanyuk, 20.07.2009 7:27, 109 Bait)

  Po slovam inyh planet - "Na Marse est' zachatochnye formy zhizni, 200 planet imeyut zhizn'". 1998

• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (gost' gost', 29.11.2007 19:10, 214 Bait) Pomoemu cveta na foto nepravel'nye grunt dolzhen byt' krasnovatogo ottenka a na foto on kak na zemle. A shariki iv pravdu ochen' pohozhy na rastitel'nost'. Chto ob etom govorit NASA. Oni ih izuchali v plotnuyu ili net.?
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (gost' gost', 29.11.2007 19:15, 1 Bait) m
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (gost' gost', 1.12.2007 20:07, 62 Bait) Mozhet eto process okisleniya a rezul'at etot neobychnyi produkt.
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (Black James, 19.01.2008 1:09, 1.1 KBait) Uvazhaemye, kolegi!
  hotel by vyrazit' svoe mnenie po povodu bolee chem strannyh kamnei Marsa. Delo v tom chto vse planety nashei solnechnoi sistemy, obrazuyushie svoeobraznuyu i sferopodobnuyu geterogennuyu sredu, yavlyayutsya po suti svoei tak nazyvaemoi temnoi materiei. Eta materiya, kak my znaem, yavlyaetsya kvazistatichekim priblizheniem preobrazovaniem Maksvella. Eto znachit, chto entropiya kvazichastic antimaterii poluprostranstva izluchaet radiacionnyi fon bol'she kriticheskogo znacheniya. Naprimer, predstav'te sebe N'yutonovskoe yabloko. Esli vernutsya na poltory sekundy nazad do sobytiya nachala momenta padeniya yabloka t0 do rasshepleniya ego na protony v mikromire do momenta popadaniya na golovu N'tona, mozhngo ponyat', chto (t - t0)*sqrt(1/x-pi) stremitsya k 0. Sledovatel'no vzyav nulevoe priblizhenie Ulissa za osnovu my berem otschet ot centra nashei galaktiki Mlechnyi put'. Stremyas' po suti svesti svoi razmery k nulyu galaktika obretaet beskonechnuyu massy v moment vremeni t2-sin(alhpa). Chto i trebovalos' dokazat'.
  
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (Black James, 19.01.2008 1:10, 1.1 KBait) Uvazhaemye, kolegi!
  hotel by vyrazit' svoe mnenie po povodu bolee chem strannyh kamnei Marsa. Delo v tom chto vse planety nashei solnechnoi sistemy, obrazuyushie svoeobraznuyu i sferopodobnuyu geterogennuyu sredu, yavlyayutsya po suti svoei tak nazyvaemoi temnoi materiei. Eta materiya, kak my znaem, yavlyaetsya kvazistatichekim priblizheniem preobrazovaniem Maksvella. Eto znachit, chto entropiya kvazichastic antimaterii poluprostranstva izluchaet radiacionnyi fon bol'she kriticheskogo znacheniya. Naprimer, predstav'te sebe N'yutonovskoe yabloko. Esli vernutsya na poltory sekundy nazad do sobytiya nachala momenta padeniya yabloka t0 do rasshepleniya ego na protony v mikromire do momenta popadaniya na golovu N'tona, mozhngo ponyat', chto (t - t0)*sqrt(1/x-pi) stremitsya k 0. Sledovatel'no vzyav nulevoe priblizhenie Ulissa za osnovu my berem otschet ot centra nashei galaktiki Mlechnyi put'. Stremyas' po suti svesti svoi razmery k nulyu galaktika obretaet beskonechnuyu massy v moment vremeni t2-sin(alhpa). Chto i trebovalos' dokazat'.
  
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (Black James, 19.01.2008 1:11, 1.1 KBait) Uvazhaemye, kolegi!
  hotel by vyrazit' svoe mnenie po povodu bolee chem strannyh kamnei Marsa. Delo v tom chto vse planety nashei solnechnoi sistemy, obrazuyushie svoeobraznuyu i sferopodobnuyu geterogennuyu sredu, yavlyayutsya po suti svoei tak nazyvaemoi temnoi materiei. Eta materiya, kak my znaem, yavlyaetsya kvazistatichekim priblizheniem preobrazovaniem Maksvella. Eto znachit, chto entropiya kvazichastic antimaterii poluprostranstva izluchaet radiacionnyi fon bol'she kriticheskogo znacheniya. Naprimer, predstav'te sebe N'yutonovskoe yabloko. Esli vernutsya na poltory sekundy nazad do sobytiya nachala momenta padeniya yabloka t0 do rasshepleniya ego na protony v mikromire do momenta popadaniya na golovu N'tona, mozhngo ponyat', chto (t - t0)*sqrt(1/x-pi) stremitsya k 0. Sledovatel'no vzyav nulevoe priblizhenie Ulissa za osnovu my berem otschet ot centra nashei galaktiki Mlechnyi put'. Stremyas' po suti svesti svoi razmery k nulyu galaktika obretaet beskonechnuyu massy v moment vremeni t2-sin(alhpa). Chto i trebovalos' dokazat'.
  
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (Black James, 19.01.2008 1:11, 1.1 KBait) Uvazhaemye, kolegi!
  hotel by vyrazit' svoe mnenie po povodu bolee chem strannyh kamnei Marsa. Delo v tom chto vse planety nashei solnechnoi sistemy, obrazuyushie svoeobraznuyu i sferopodobnuyu geterogennuyu sredu, yavlyayutsya po suti svoei tak nazyvaemoi temnoi materiei. Eta materiya, kak my znaem, yavlyaetsya kvazistatichekim priblizheniem preobrazovaniem Maksvella. Eto znachit, chto entropiya kvazichastic antimaterii poluprostranstva izluchaet radiacionnyi fon bol'she kriticheskogo znacheniya. Naprimer, predstav'te sebe N'yutonovskoe yabloko. Esli vernutsya na poltory sekundy nazad do sobytiya nachala momenta padeniya yabloka t0 do rasshepleniya ego na protony v mikromire do momenta popadaniya na golovu N'tona, mozhngo ponyat', chto (t - t0)*sqrt(1/x-pi) stremitsya k 0. Sledovatel'no vzyav nulevoe priblizhenie Ulissa za osnovu my berem otschet ot centra nashei galaktiki Mlechnyi put'. Stremyas' po suti svesti svoi razmery k nulyu galaktika obretaet beskonechnuyu massy v moment vremeni t2-sin(alhpa). Chto i trebovalos' dokazat'.
  
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 19.01.2008 6:44, 72 Bait) Kollega, a Vy ne probovali naoborot? pyat' raz podumat' i tol'ko odin raz
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 29.01.2008 15:44, 3.3 KBait) Figurka golosuyushei zhenshiny (infa staraya uzhe dve nedeli, vse znayut). Noyabr' 2007 dni na panorame (1336 1339) sleva vnizu byla obnaruzhena nebol'shaya figurka marsianskoi Venery. Voobshe krasivo zvuchit Venera s Marsa! Panorama 5.8 mbait sovsem sleva i pochti vnizu http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA10214.jpg Kommentarii NASA k panorame 400kbait. http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA10214 Cherno-belyi simok byl sdelan v 1367 den' http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/p/1367/2P247720343EFFAWCCP2415L7M1.JPG Na cherno-beloi fotografii golosuyushaya zhenshina (razmer figurki skoree vsego santimetrov pyat'-shest') vidna horosho, nahoditsya vnizu chut' levee centra. Fotografii cherno-belye primerno po 400 kbait. Rasstoyanie Spirita na segodnya ot etogo mesta navernyaka menee 20 metrov po pryamoi. Za eti dva mesyaca Spirit dvigalsya malo, pochti ne peremeshalsya, nemnogo proehal k holmam i podnyalsya na nebol'shuyu nasyp'. Vse fotografii Spirita za tot zhe 1367 den' http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/spirit_p1367.html Ubezhishe dlya marsianskih chelovechkov ot nosyashego vokrug i po nim Spirita, nahoditsya primerno v etom zhe meste, metrov na desyat' ili men'she po napravleniya k holmam http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/p/1421/2P252514247EFFAX00P2263L2M1.JPG Teper' nashi kommentarii. Soglasno gipoteze molekulyarnoi formy zhizni, forma zhizni v vide malen'kih chelovechkov ne vozmozhno. V samom dele to chto my vidim eto ne prosto zhenshina. Eto krasavica v nashem sovremenno-zemnom ponimanii. Soglasimsya net osnovanii predpolagat' chto sredi zhivyh kamnei raspolozheny tekstil'nye fabriki ili prachechnye. Potom chelovekoobraznye sushestva mogut byt' tol'ko na Zemle, poskol'ku dlya etogo neobhodimy chelovecheskaya sreda obitaniya. Nu skazhem samoe elementarnoe. Volosy ne tol'ko kul't krasoty i zhenstvennosti, no i greyut zashishayut, ukrashayut. Pri takoi pyli i otsutstviya vody i shampunya volosy malo veroyatny. Vspomnim noch'yu v etom meste -90S! Dyshat' im slozhno i net neobhodimosti poskol'ku atmosfera kraine razryazhena i v nei net kisloroda. Tak chto zhivoe sushestvo v bukval'nom vide napominayushee zemnyh zhitelei na Marse nevozmozhno. A marsianka ne prosto napominaet, eto vysokohudozhestvennoe proizvedenie sravnimoe s luchshimi rabotami Mikelandzhelo! Togda kto i chto eto?! Horosho by konechno vernutsya i snyat' pod mikroskopom. No, esli tol'ko chisto gipoteticheski, to eto simvol dlya privlecheniya nashego vnimaniya. Chto oznachaet i pochemu takoi malen'kii? Proshe otvetit' na vtoroi vopros. Nashi gipoteticheskie marsiane uzhe ne raz demonstrirovali vpolne nablyudaemye i osyazaemye obrazy. My ih ne zamechaem, tak vot bud' zhenshina bol'shoi kak na etom nizhnem snimke, vse ravno nichego ne izmenilos' by, my by ego vse ravno ne zametili, no raboty gorazdo bol'she. http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/p/1359/2P247013809EFFAW00P2410L7M1.JPG Teper' simvol chego? Dumayu ishodya iz lichnogo vospriyatiya nashei miloi neznakomki. Eto blagosklonnoe zhelanie poznakomit'sya. Sledovatel'no eto kontakt. Zhelanie privlech' nashe vnimanie. A znachit v blizhaishee vremya mozhno zhdat' i drugie analogichnye proyavleniya ih prisutstviya. Marsiane prekrasno znayut nashu civilizaciyu, ee istoki i vse nyuansy nashego razvitiya i nashei psihologii. Teper' posmotrim chto oni eshe dlya nas prigotovili. Hotya vernutsya i rassmotret' neznakomku povnimatel'nee bylo by ne lishnee.
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 30.01.2008 6:25, 67 Bait) Igra svetoteni. Tekst kak podgotovitel'nyi material, tak na sluchai
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 30.01.2008 12:29, 815 Bait) Esli vnimatel'no rassmatrivat' ishodnye chetyre fotografii. Bez gotovogo resheniya NASA (voznikshego konechno zhe pri nesluchainom uchastii operatorov Spirita). Tak vot esli ishodnye fotografii rassmatrivat' ne predvzyato to golova neznakomki eto ten' ot yamki na peske. Ruka i tulovishe i nogi eto raznye kamni. Vyshe ya privel ssylku na vse fotografii za etot den'. Posmotrite vnimatel'no vse horosho vidno. Pouchitel'no drugoe, my ne perestali smotret' na Mars glazami obyvatelya zhazhdushego belkovoi zhizni i tol'ko belkovoi. I dazhe ishushih na Marse predstavitelei zemnoi zhizni! Lyudei, dinozavrov, slonov. Ishut dveri (portaly!) v astral'nye miry. A shariki na poverhnosti v odin sloi absolyutno (nu pochti) ni kogo ne interesuyut. Vot esli by na nih kto uvidel po dva morgayushih glaza i Togda konechno, eto sensaciya!
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (P. A. ChABAN, 1.03.2008 18:08, 2.0 KBait) Hotelos' by vernut'sya k osnovnoi teme, o zhizni na Marse, o zhizni v solnechnoi sisteme i o zhizni voobshe. Chto kasaetsya kamnei, moe mnenie takovo, "darennomu konyu zuby ne smotryat", kogda my budem razglyadyvat' svoi snimki, vot vopros.A seichas, nauchimsya vidit' to, chto ne uvideli ili skryli avtory snimkov, i budem snishoditel'ny, i blagodarny za predostavlennuyu vozmozhnost' "uteret' im nos". Otkroite i vnimatel'no izuchite snimki lun Marsa! Neuzheli oni stol' posredstvennogo kachestva? Prekrasnye snimki!, no malo.Dali by rassmotret' eti "KAMNI" so vseh storon, i opisanie etih kosmicheskih domov byl by polnee. Ya ne ogovori - lsya! Luny Marsa obitaemy, Demos - tochno, s frontal'noi storony - svet, mayak ili chto, no prismotrites'.Samoe interesnoe to, chto i Fobos, i Demos ispeschereny kvadratnymi "oknami", da kak! Vse okna na sputnikah obrazuyut "pchelinye soty" s oknom tochno v centre ravnougol'nogo shestiugol'nika! Eta tochnost' soblyudena po vsei ploskosti oboih sputnikov. Zhal' net vsestoronnego snimka, ni odnogo, ni vtorogo ob'ekta, no po detalyam na snimkah mozhno predpolozhit', chto eti dve luny Marsa, sostavlyali odin bol'shoi orbital'nyi dom. Davaite, druz'ya, na zhizn' smotret' sovsem inache, potomu chto, na nee my glyadim, estestvenno, so stupen'ki nashego razvitiya, a eto znachit - uchit'sya nam i razvivat'sya dolgo, a nado podymat'sya na novuyu stupnn', k sovershenstvu. V zaklyuchenii hochu vyrazit' iskrennuyu blagodarnost' davshim vozmozhnost' vylozhit' svoe mnenie na sud VAM, terpelivym no nadeyus', vzyskatel'nym entuziastam svoego uvlecheniya, avtoram snimkov i saitam s kotoryh popolnyayu svoi rabochii al'- bom. Pozdravlyayu vseh nas, ZEMLYaN, s nachalom novoi Ery razvitiya Chelovechestva - osoznannogo sotrudnichestva s ceviliza- ciyami davshim nam, lyudyam (i ne tol'ko, i vse radi nas)zhizn'! Dorogie moi, my tol'ko otkryvaem dver' sotrudnichestva, no budem li prinyaty - ???! HOChU SLOZhIT' STROKOYu NOVO' OBITEL' PLAMENNYH SERDEC! PROEKT PLANETY OBNOVLENNO', PLANETY SChAST'Ya, NAKONEC.
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 27.03.2008 13:38, 5.1 KBait) Novye fotografii Encelada, uchastok raspolozheniya ledyanyh geizerov raion Yuzhnogo polyusa. Obnaruzheny anomal'nye zony povyshennoi temperatury po krainei mere na 110S vyshe srednego dlya Encelada! I eto v raione polyusa. Remarkably high temperatures, at least 180 Kelvin (minus 135 degrees ...) were registered along the brightest fracture, named Damascus Sulcus, in the lower left portion of the image. For comparison, surface temperatures elsewhere in the south polar region of Enceladus are below 72 Kelvin (minus 330 degrees ...). http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=3013 Ranee v 7 chasti my pisali. http://www.sciteclibrary.ru/rus/catalog/pages/8567.html Skoree vsego, kak na Evrope, Encelade tak i na kometah, my vidim proyavlenie vnutrennei organizacii s nekimi preobrazovaniyami energii harakternymi dlya zhivogo organizma. Poskol'ku, esli uchityvat' vse teplo v proekcii komety ili Encelada, to ego kolichestva vpolne dostatochno dlya obrazovaniya nablyudaemogo ispareniya, no s uchetom togo, chto pogloshenie proishodit po vsei ploshadi, a rashoduetsya na isparenie lokal'nym obrazom, gde-to vnutri komet. S posleduyushim udaleniem para cherez otnositel'no uzkie otverstiya. Poetomu naibolee pravdopodobnaya versiya dlya Evropy, proyasnyayushaya nablyudaemuyu kartinu - eto cirkulyaciya teplonositelya po sisteme chastichno vyhodyashei na poverhnost', skoree vsego s cel'yu sbrosa tepla. Svoeobraznyi radiator ohlazhdeniya, no, skoree vsego process deistvuet kombinirovanno so mnogimi celyami (vyravnivanie temperatury, obluchenie veshestva i t. d.). Foto sprava Encelad. http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/target/Enceladus?start=10 http:// photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/target/Enceladus?start=0 Ego ledyanoi geizer tak zhe mozhet byt' sledstviem prohudivsheisya sistemy, pri vozdeistvii nebol'shogo meteorita ili drugoi neshtatnoi situacii vnutrennego haraktera. No, opyat' zhe vozmozhna i shtatnaya situaciya vybrosa ledyanogo para kak napravlennogo tehnologicheskogo processa. Processa napravlennogo na preobrazovanie okruzhayushego prostranstva. Napomnim al'bedo Encelada bol'she 90%, eto oznachaet, chto ostaetsya tol'ko menee desyati procentov solnechnoi energii, intensivnost', kotoroi na orbite Saturna i tak nevelika. Poetomu gipoticheskii vodyanoi karman sushestvuyushii vo l'du Encelada i rozhdayushii ledyanoi geizer, eto vtoroi tom nashego skazochnika, bezuderzhnaya fantaziya kotorogo vydumaet vodu na Plutone i dal'she (a my uzhe soobshali v 5 chasti o nalichii kristallicheskogo l'da na poverhnosti malyh tel iz poyasa Koiperona). Po povodu vsego izlozhennogo u nas est' vopros. - I chto, menee odnogo procenta tepla, otnositel'no tepla padayushego na Zemlyu v raione polyusa, dostatochno, chto by Encelad byl vnutri iz zhidkoi teploi vody? Eto bez plotnoi atmosfery, prosto v otkrytom kosmose?! Na etoi ssylke http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/target/Enceladus?start=30 est' fotografiya, na kotoroi pokazany krome krupnyh izlomov na poverhnosti Encelada, est' eshe i melkie nerovnosti, imeyushie bukval'no schitannye metry shiriny. Eto chto, govorit o tom, chto led, na Encelade podvizhen i imeet neskol'ko metrov tolshiny? A podo l'dom moshnye buruny ot raznonapravlennyh techenii? Techenii, po-vidimomu, proishodyashie ot raznosti temperatur i privodyashie k podvizhke l'din i dal'she k obrazovaniyu otkrytoi vodyanoi poverhnosti? I vse eto pri temperature 190 S. A dlya ispareniya vodnaya poverhnost' eshe i otkryta i dazhe bez tonkogo sloya l'da? I eto nauchnoe ob'yasnenie fenomena?? Issledovanie nablyudaemyh yavlenii, edinstvenno pravil'no vesti s uchetom vseh vozmozhnostei, i nalichiya zhizni tozhe (raz eto menee nepravdopodobno). Chto v real'nosti tol'ko neznachitel'no izmenyaet i dopolnyaet programmu issledovanii. Esli dazhe pochemu-libo i neobhodima versiya, idushaya cherez fantasticheskie gipotezy, naprimer nalichiya otkrytoi zhidkoi vody na takom ogromnom udalenii ot Solnca, to prosto tak, dlya raznoobraziya, davaite predpolozhim i chto-to fizicheski vozmozhnoe. A budet li eto zhizn' ili neizvestnye fizicheskie zakony, eto proyasnitsya v hode issledovanii (novye eshe ne otkrytye zakony prirody, ya vsegda za takoi podhod). My k tomu, chto poluchennaya informaciya, vo mnogom sledstvie primenyaemyh metodov issledovanii. I my znaem, chto Psihoemocional'naya sostavlyayushaya pri analize novoi informacii, vsegda preobladaet pered logikoi, etomu uchit vsya predydushaya istoriya razvitiya nauki. Togda kak pri sostavlenii programmy issledovanii nichego ne stoit zaranee uchityvat' i vyskazannye nami vozmozhnosti. Soglasimsya, est' smysl, budushie programmy slegka skorrektirovat', naprimer, kakie na poverhnosti gradienty i konfiguraciya raspredeleniya pyaten temperatur, polyarizaciya otrazhennogo sveta, raspredelenie himicheskih veshestv, neelektromagnitnoe ili subelektromagnitnoe izluchenie i t. d. Ne prosto zafiksirovat', a poiskat' vtorichnye i tretichnye priznaki po obnaruzhivshemsya artefaktam. T. e. razobrat'sya v situacii na meste po hodu programmy. Vyrazim nadezhdu chto dal'neishie issledovaniya dadut bolee detal'nuyu kartinu gradienta temperatur i drugih detalei. Ne pravda li lyubopytnoe prorochestvo? V duhe staryh dobryh tradicii ot Nostradamusa. Po krainei mere soglasimsya chto nablyudaemoe poka skoree podtverzhdaet chem protivorechit vyshe predpolozhennomu.
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 28.03.2008 12:22, 3.1 KBait, otvetov: 1) Informaciya s Encelada udivitel'na i vse bolee i bolee soglasuetsya so skazannym nami v stat'e. Imeetsya v vidu vozmozhnost' molekulyarnoi formy zhizni ne trivial'nogo vida. Vzyato mnoi s Foruma Novosti Kosmonavtiki. (ssylka na Forum NK) http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/phpBB2/ viewtopic.php?t=175&start=1110&sid=c4be617e96ffe69aef77ffc7f4a65bec Soobshenie Imxotep Kak izvestno, fontany Encelada predstavlyayut soboi potoki vodyanogo para i ledyanoi pyli, vyryvayushiesya iz 4- h dlinnyh razlomov na yuzhnom polyuse sputnika. Dolgoe vremya schitalos', chto eti 2 sostavlyayushie vedut sebya po- raznomu : potoki pyli letyat bolee menee v odnom napravlenii, a gaz pochti srazu rasshiryaetsya, obrazuyu diffuznyi oreol. Odnako nedavnie izmereniya Kassini vyyavili dovol'no rezkuyu granicu, potoki gaza i pyli vedut sebya kak odna moshnaya struya s plotnost'yu v 20 raz bol'she predskazannoi. Eto oznachaet, chto rezhim istecheniya blizok k sverhzvukovomu, i podrazumevet bol'shie davleniya i temperatury v nedrah Encelada. http://planetary.org/image/PIA10362.png Plotnost' fontanov Encelada. Vidna rezkaya granica na vhode v struyu. http://planetary.org/image/PIA10356_lg.png Mass-spektr fontanov Encelada po dannym INMS Neozhidanno vysokaya plotnost' okazalas' kak nel'zya kstati pri izmerenii himicheskogo sostava. Blagodarya bolee chetkomu signalu mass-spektrometra INMS byl razreshen pik v oblasti tyazhelyh ionov s massami ~ 40. Eto organicheskie molekuly i produkty ih raspada etan, metan, propan, propen, acetilen, formal'degid, HCN. Otnositel'nye koncentracii organicheskih veshestv okazalis' ochen' blizki k organike, obnaruzhennoi v kometah http://planetary.org/image/PIA10357_lg.png Na risunke vyshe na izmerennyi mass-spektr naneseny tipichnye koncentracii teh zhe veshestv v kometnom materiale (belye skobki). Po mnogim pokazatelyam sovpadenie bolee chem udivitel'no i adekvatnomu ob'yasneniyu poluchennyi rezul'tat poka ne poddaetsya. Mozhet li v sisteme Saturna poyavit'sya sputnik s sostavom kak u ob'ektov poyasa Koipera? Ili zhe izmerennye koncentracii yavlyayutsya sledstviem protekayushih vnutri Encelada processov? Otvet eshe predstoit uznat'. http://planetary.org/image/enceladus_spole_cirs_comparison_lg.jpg Temperaturnye karty yuzhnogo polyusa Encelada. Sleva - dannye 2005 goda., sprava 2008-go Drugie vazhnye podrobnosti o yuzhnom polyuse Encelada byli polucheny IK-spektrometrom CIRS - vpervye udalos' razreshit' teplovoe izluchenie ot otdel'nyh treshin. Vchetvero luchshee prostranstvennoe razreshenie takzhe pozvolilo vyyavit' uchastki s temperaturoi znachitel'no vyshe, chem bylo izvestno ranee. Tekushii rekord 180 K (-93 S) - pochti ne ostavlyaet somnenii, chto gde-to vnutri temperatura priblizhaetsya k 0 S i sushestvuet zhidkaya voda. http://planetary.org/image/PIA10361_fig1_labeled_lg.jpg Na bolee podrobnoi karte vidno, chto temperatura poverhnosti dovol'no plavno menyaetsya vdol' treshin, nesmotrya na to, chto strui izvergayutsya iz nedr lish' v neskol'kih diskretnyh mestah (zvezdochki). Vo vremya sleduyushego proleta v avguste Kassini poluchit eshe bolee podrobnuyu temperaturnuyu kartu treshiny Damask, gde nahoditsya samaya goryachaya tochka poverhnosti Encelada. po materialam planetary.org
• Re[2]: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (D. I. Vasil'ev, 2.04.2008 17:26, 191 Bait)

  Nashel zdes' fotki kosmicheskih kristallov,na saitev gallereyu proiti nuzhno: <a href=http://www.hiwe.info>himicheskie veshestva</a> kristally kakogo veshestva tol'ko, ne poimu?

• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 22.04.2008 9:15, 2.6 KBait) Lyubopytnuyu informaciyu nashel Sergei Konstantinovich (TONOS). Soznanie mineralov. Issledovaniya minerologa A. Bokovikova pokazali, chto imeetsya kremnievaya forma zhizni v vide mineralov agatov, yavlyayushihsya zhivymi organizmami so vsemi priznakami, svoistvennymi belkovoi forme zhizni: anatomiya, sposob pitaniya, nalichie polov, razmnozhenie [58]. V rabote E.M. Egorovoi o tonkih svoistvah metallov podderzhivaetsya ideya razdeleniya tela minerala na veshestvennoe i elektromagnitnoe sostoyanie [59; s. 161]. V Bibliografii k knige ukazano: 58. Bokovikov A. A. Otkrytie kremnievoi formy zhizni na Zemle. Soznanie i fizicheskaya real'nost'. T. 3(6). S. 43-55, 1998. 59. Egorova E. M. Tonkie svoistva metallov. Ezhegodnik "Del'fis", 2002. S. 161-167 "... Avtorom predstavleny nekotorye priznaki kremnievoi formy zhizni, sovmestimymi s priznakami belkovoi formy zhizni: - chetko vyrazhennaya anatomiya kremnievyh organizmov; - razmnozhenie semenami; - razmnozhenie otpochkovaniem; - vnutrennee razvitie zarodysha; - nalichie spiralevidnoi kozhi; - lin'ka kozhi; - regeneraciya kozhi; - zalechivanie ran, skolov, treshin; - obrazuyushiisya put' dlya vyhoda semyan - struktura "kolodcev"; - kristallicheskoe telo - hranilishe nasledstvennoi informacii i dr.... ... V stat'e A. Bokovikova predstavleny unikal'nye materialy, podtverzhdayushie vozmozhnost' kremnievoi zhizni, - eto zhivye kamni - agaty i drugie obrazovaniya iz okislov kremniya... Tak zhe v temu. Bolee 10 let nazad francuzskie uchenye Demon i Eskol'e sdelali sensacionnoe otkrytie: nekotorye zemnye kamni zhivye sushestva, predstavlyayushie druguyu formu zhizni, s gromadnym po nashim merkam zhiznennym ciklom i medlennym processom zhiznedeyatel'nosti. Provedennye imi issledovaniya pokazali, chto ryad vidov kamnei ne tol'ko sposobny dvigat'sya, o chem ya seichas rasskazhu, ne tol'ko vibriruyut, no eshe i imeyut sobstvennuyu pul'saciyu ot dvuh dnei do treh nedel'. Dobavlyu neskol'ko elektronnyh ssylok po dannoi teme naidennyh mnoi v inete. http://www.mega.kemerovo.su/WEB/HTML/4837.HTM http://www.akinkosmosa.narod.ru/lekcii33.htm V poiskah svidetel'stv togo, chto zhizn' na Zemle voznikala ne raz, uchenye vnimatel'no issleduyut ekologicheskie nishi, gde mogli by obitat' mikroorganizmy, radikal'no otlichayushiesya ot teh, kotorye nam tak horosho znakomy. http://elementy.ru/lib/430578?page_design=print Soznanie i fizicheskaya real'nost' http://sfr.folium.ru/ http://sfr.folium.ru/contents.htm http://www.scienceandfuture.sgm.ru/rus/thesis.php Zagadki prirody kremnievyh mineralov http://2003.vernadsky.info/works/e1/03364.html Korabl' prishel'cev s planety Agat http://www.proza.ru/addrec.html?2005/01/19-48
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 1.05.2008 10:23, 3.8 KBait) Izmeneniya poverhnosti Marsa vo vremya pylevoi buri. http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=11328 Sravnim pozicii marsianskih kamnei do i posle buri. Spirit Jun 23, Aug 24, 2007 ( marsianskie dni 1234 i 1294) http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1268026083&size=o Marsianskie pylevye buri yavno vliyayut na rost kamnei. Sravnivaya snimki do i posle buri horosho vidno chto kamni kak by podnyalis' nad poverhnost'yu. Zazor mezhdu kamnyami i gruntom stal na santimetr poltora bol'she. Otsyuda vyvod libo my vidim ne kamni a korally i my nablyudaem rost korallov proizoshedshii za schet obil'nogo vpityvaniya pylevoi massy vo vremya pylevoi buri. Libo pesok i pyl' vymelo ogoliv kamni na poltora santimetra. No esli eto eroziya, to eroziya sil'naya i togda udivitel'no i ne ob'yasnimo drugoe. Animaciya izmenenii. http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1268381317&size=o Vnimanie. Poziciya pri fotografirovanii raznaya. Fotografii s raznyh napravlenii i raznogo rasstoyaniya i po vysote. No, vse zhe esli prosmotret' 15 - 20 smen kadra to glaza privyknut i adaptiruyutsya k forme proizoshedshih izmenenii. Kamen' v kadre kak by nemnogo podnimaetsya ili pesok vyduvaetsya. Sledovatel'no est' kolossal'nye izmeneniya vsego za neskol'ko mesyacev (dva zemnyh mesyaca). Otsyuda nalichie bol'shoi erozii poverhnosti Marsa prosto vidno glazami. Togda vstaet vopros proishozhdeniya milliardov melkih voronok kraterov (ili pohozhih na kratery) pokryvayushih vsyu poverhnost' Marsa. Ih ne dolzhno byt'! Ved' voznikayut kratery redko, a pylevaya burya deistvuet odnovremenno na vsyu poverhnost'. Napomnyu chto bol'shie kratery Endurans i Viktoriya po okruzhnosti okruzhayut mnozhestvo melkih kraterov, primerno shtuk dvesti odin ili dva metra v diametre. Soglasno obychnoi logike, obrazovaniya kraterov ot padeniya meteoritov, bol'shie kratery voznikayut redko, no sohranyayutsya dolgo. Melkie obrazovalis' ot oskolkov krupnogo meteorita i obrazovalis' odnovremenno. Togda melkih kraterov pri takoi sil'noi erozii ne dolzhno byt' voobshe!! A nablyudaemaya statistika ih bol'shogo nalichiya i raspolozheniya melkih imenno vokrug krupnyh, govorit o ih vzaimnoi tesnoi svyazi melkih voronok s bol'shimi. Kak pautiny okruzhayushei gribnicu. Eshe raz podcherknu chto nablyudaemye melkie kratery ne mogli obrazovat'sya pri padenii oskolkov ot krupnogo meteorita. Tak kak eroziya poverhnosti Marsa ochen' sil'naya i za milliony let vse melkie kratery obyazatel'no ischezli by. Da i po fotografiyam vidno chto mnogie melkie kratery obrazovalis' sovsem nedavno. Kak by poverhnost' vzlamyvaetsya iznutri vshodami pobegami ot central'nogo tela. http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20080102a.html http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20080102a/Sol1162B_P2299_L257F_br2.jpg Tak vot imenno ishodya iz bol'shoi erozii kotoraya kak fakt est' i vidna v tom chisle i po stiraniyu sledov roverov. To odnovremennoe nalichie bol'shogo chisla melkih kraterov nesovmestimo. I imenno poetomu my sdelali vyvod o ih ne meteoritnom proishozhdenii. Melkie voronki i bol'shie eto takaya forma zhizni vrode gribnicy. Neprivychnaya dlya nashego glaza, no ponyatnaya chisto logicheski. Poskol'ku eshe raz povtoryu za god na poverhnost' vsego Marsa padaet okolo dvadcati meteoritov! A stirat'sya oni dolzhny let za sto trista, sledovatel'no svezhii krater na Marse dolzhen byt' takoi zhe redkost'yu kak i na Zemle. Melkih kraterov prosto ne dolzhno byt'! A oni est'. Sledovatel'no eto ne ot meteoritov. Uzhe odno eto dolzhno bylo nastorozhit' vseh i v tom chisle NASA, no etogo ne proishodit chto i udivitel'no. A kamni pohozhie na zemnyh zveryushek, eto dlya nashego analiza ne obyazatel'ny, prosto razvlekalochka. Takih strannyh kamnei moglo i ne byt', prosto ishodya iz mesta i sluchainosti. No raz oni est' to kazalos' by nado issledovat' hotya by iz prostogo lyubopytstva.
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 29.05.2008 12:45, 2.0 KBait) Obratim vnimanie chto krupnye voronki v polyarnyh raionah est'. Krater Heindall nahodyashiisya primerno v 20km ot mesta posadki Feniksa. Meteority kak i polozheno padayut vezde. http://planetary.org/image/PSP_008579_9020_descent_lg.jpg No vblizi Feniksa net melkih voronok razmerom s Bigl' http://a52.g.akamaitech.net/f/52/827/1d/www.space.com/images/080527-phoenix-overview-02.jpg A vokrug Endurans i Viktoriya est' Endurans http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/6/image029.jpg Viktoriya http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/6/image076.jpg Imenno ne estestvenno pricel'noe padenie melkih meteoritov vokrug krupnyh. Da i samo po sebe neestestvenno chto melkie meteority padayut vokrug kraterov Viktorii i Endurans, prichem na nekotorom udalenii, a vokrug kratera Erebus lezhashego mezhdu nimi (okolo 400m, no yavno ne zhivogo vida pri sravnenii s Endurans i Viktorii). Erebus http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/6/image080.jpg Bigl' http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/6/image079.jpg Endurans http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/6/image078.jpg Chto i pozvolyaet predpolozhit' chto melkie kratery ne meteoritnogo proishozhdeniya a nekie vzlomy-vyhody na poverhnost' shupalec-pobegov ot osnovnogo kratera. Skoree vsego pod poverhnost'yu Marsa vezde est' razvetvlennaya pautina marsianskoi raznovidnosti gribnic. Poetomu i nado gotovit' ne Super polet kosmonavtov geroev, kotorye vse ravno nichego ne uvidyat i ne naidut (vprochem etogo ni kto i ne ozhidaet) a issledovatel'skii rover imeyushii horoshii manipulyator dlya perevorachivaniya kamnei i ih drobleniya i geofizicheskuyu kosu dlya izucheniya pod poverhnostnoi struktury. Ssylka melkii krater i krater Viktoriya raspolozhennyi na zadnem plane. http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20080102a.html Na blizhnem plane fotografii bezymyannyi malyi krater s vybroshennoi iz nego porodoi vdali vidny obryvy kratera Viktoriya. Versiya obrazovaniya malogo kratera i Bol'shogo kratera Viktorii v odno i to zhe vremya nesovmestima po faktu, poskol'ku my vidim maluyu voronku na rovnoi poverhnosti a ne na vybroshennoi porode.
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 2.08.2008 10:06, 2.4 KBait) Vopros o vode i temperature k tem KTO znaet. Kak izvestno v meste posadki Feniksa seichas polyarnoe leto. Sootvetstvenno -30 i - 80 eto temperatura POVERHNOSTI nagrevaemaya solnechnym svetom. V seredine dnya (vysokoe solncestoyanie) -30 i -80 noch'yu (nizkoe solncestoyanie). Etu temperaturu mozhno opredelit' i s Zemli. Togda kak temperatura v glubine (hotya by na odin metr) po-vidimomu uzhe inaya i blizka k -125, tak kak ne zadolgo do pribytiya Feniksa v etom meste lezhal sneg iz SO2 (vprochem cherez neskol'ko mesyacev on snova poyavitsya). Na vysote rabochego stola Feniksa temperatura tozhe dolzhna byt' namnogo nizhe maks. (-24, vysokie temperatury eto tonkii sloi poverhnosti osveshennyi Solncem i imeyushii nizkoe al'bedo) eto izvestno po rabote Spirita i Opportuniti. S drugoi storony v teni pod platformoi Feniksa gde yakoby sublimiruet vodyanoi led (treshiny, morshiny) temperatura v dannoe vremya v techenii sutok dolzhna kolebat'sya ot -80 do primerno -50. 1. Temperatura na dne rva? 2. Temperatura na vysote rabochego stola (eto vysota setki gruntozabornika). 3. Temperatura v teni pod platformoi (mesto raspolozheniya Belosnezhki, voobshe govorya Belosnezhka eto ne pesok ne krupinki, a monolit i bystraya, nablyudaemaya vizual'no sublimaciya monolitnogo vodyanogo l'da pri temperature -50S eto neveroyatno!). 4. Temperatura kovsha, opor, setki i t.p. iz togo, chto izvestno. 5. Temperatura grunta popadayushego v kalorimetr. Skol'ko? Skol'ko vodyanogo para polucheno pri nagrevanii gazoanalizatora v % k masse proby?? Ili rech' idet o menee procenta? Primerno? Pri kakoi temperature proizoshlo isparenie vody i/ili byla sublimaciya? Kakova teploemkost' i ee izmenenie posle ispareniya vodyanogo para, iz togo chto voobshe izvestno??? Chto to zhe polucheno. Skol'ko fazovyh perehodov i pri kakoi temperature?? Tysyacha gradusov voobshe dostignuta?? Esli ne trudno konechno iz togo chto est' ili poyavilos' (mozhno so skidkoi na ). Spravka. http://planetary.chem.tufts.edu/Phoenix/thermal_evolved_gas_analyzer.htm Pribor Thermal Evolved Gas Analyzer (TEGA) sostoit iz dvuh instrumentov differencial'nogo skaniruyushego kalorimetra i mass-spektrometra. Differencial'nyi skaniruyushii kalorimetr pozvolyaet opredelyat' temperatury fazovyh prevrashenii i reakcii razlozheniya v obrazce. TEGA mozhet obnaruzhit' >0.2% vody po poglosheniyu tepla pri plavlenii l'da i >0.5% CaCO3 po poglosheniyu tepla pri ego razlozhenii.
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 3.08.2008 22:11, 1.6 KBait) Dopolnitel'no "Soderzhanie l'da v pochve, vozmozhno vsego 1% ot obshei massy, otmetil Bointon. " V svyazi s so skazanym Boitonom (NASA), ne yavyaetsya li zayavlenoe ranee i nedavno (ob obnaruzhenii vody na Marse) neskol'ko zauvelichenym (pravid'no govorit' o ocherednom (shestom) priznake nalichiya vody na Marse (kstati tozhe ne ploho), pervye 5 obsheiizvestny. Ne mozhet zhe byt' :angry: chto voda v kolichestve 1% sozdala pri vozdeistvii reaktivnoi struii lednik nazvanyi NASA "belosnezhkoi" a pri sublimacii nekotoroi doli ot 1% privesti k nablyudaemym izmeneniyam. http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA11000 A raznica v tom B) chto pri -10-14 S subimaciya vodyanogo l'da pri usloviyah Marsa vsezhe nablyudaemoe yavlenie. No v teni platformy temperatura skoree vsego nizhe -80 noch'yu i ne vyshe -60 a to i nizhe -70 dazhe dnem. Kak izvestno na Marse atmosfera ploho peredaet teplo, snizu pod tonkim sloem peska grunt blizkii k -125S (no opyat' zhe nam interesno skol'ko esli tochno) a sonechnogo sveta v teni net po opredeleniyu. Takim zhe obrazom "belosnezhka" sublimiruet??!! Krome togo chto eto priliplo k oporam? My pro te samye strannye kapli na oporah kotorye srazu priznali za vodu. - A teper' chto?! Vremeni ostalos' uzhe ne tak mnogo, pora nachat' issl. vse vozmozh varianty. Da i dvoe sutok vyzhidaniya dlya "prosushki" peska pri podnyatom kovshe imet tu osobennost' chto kovsh podsyhaet v holodnom sloe vozduha. Eto ne real'no dlya vodyanogo l'da (no sko'ko t C etogo sloya?). Potom kak to stranno dlya NASA ne publikovat' infu v yavnom vide a vydavat' ob'yavleniya ili zayavleniya ne sootvetstvuyushie nablyudaemomu (i voobshe nichemu ne sootvetstvuyushie).
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 3.09.2008 5:51, 1.1 KBait) Spirit, sol 1647, 1637, 1529, 1519 http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/p/1647/2P272577262EFFAY00P2280L3M1.JPG http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/p/1637/2P271689452EFFAY00P2278L3M1.JPG http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/p/1529/2P262098091EFFAY00P2261L4M1.JPG http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/p/1519/2P261212140EFFAY00P2295R2M1.JPG Brosaetsya v glaza kamni na sklone kak treugol'nye/gladkie tak i nozdrevato-koryavye te zhe samye kamni no s uchetom zasyhaniya, otmiraniya pervyh. 1.net kamnei vnizu sklonov skativshihsya tuda v vide opolznei. 2.kamni na sklonah lezhat tol'ko polnost'yu na poverhnosti (kak ovoshi na bahche) 3.smorshennye i gladkie kamni primerno odnogo razmera i formy (osobenno bol'shoe shodstvo u kamnei tol'ko nachavshih staret') 4.esli schitat' treugol'nye zatochennye kamni rezul'tatom deistviya osadkov to tem bolee dolzhny byt' na sklonah sledy erozii a vnizu sklonov smytye kamni a etogo net 5.smorshennyh kamnei men'she gladkih, a znachit srok zhizni i rosta kamnei znachitel'no bol'she vremeni gnieniya chto bolee estestvenno
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 18.09.2008 7:14, 1.6 KBait) Chto eto? Spirit den' 1361 http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardawho/1826940155/sizes/o/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardawho/1791857787/sizes/o/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardawho/1828894665/ Ishodnye fotografii Spirita den' 1361 NASA http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/spirit_p1361.html Etot zhe ob'ekt v predydushie dni (shelchkom mozhno uvelichit' fotografiyu) http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/spirit_p1356.html http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/spirit_p1354.html Obratim vnimanie chto esli bukval'no vosprinimat' to chto my vidim na fotografiyah. To ob'ekt menyaetsya i trepyhaetsya ob'ekt imeet raznuyu formu v sosednih po vremeni kadrah. Ryadom lezhit otletevshaya chast' ob'ekta i to zhe trepyhaetsya. http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/p/1354/2P246566079EFFAVQWP2408L7M1.HTML http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/p/1354/2P246566079EFFAVQWP2408R1M1.HTML http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/p/1354/2P246566274EFFAVQWP2408L7M1.HTML http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/p/1354/2P246566274EFFAVQWP2408R1M1.HTML Vspomnim krolikov sfotografirovannogo Opportuniti v kratere Igl v pervye dni, oba ob'ekta imeli tot zhe cvet i peremeshalis'. http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/6/image038.jpg http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/6/image039.jpg Ili chto prolilos' zdes'? Tot zhe 1361 den' s kotorogo my nachali no uzhe Opportuniti krater Viktoriya. http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardawho/1657908691/sizes/o/ Soglasimsya esli by NASA izuchala vse ob'ekty tak zhe tshatel'no kak ishet N2O to mnogoe Vprochem u nas est' glaza i fotografii, poglazeem
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 20.09.2008 0:44, 520 Bait) PODTVERZhDENO NALIChIE NA MARSE OB'EKTOV NEYaSNO' I TRUDNOOB'YaSNIMO' MORFOLOGII Rezul'taty obrabotki i analiza bol'shih massivov informacii, poluchennoi s pomosh'yu kamery sverhvysokogo razresheniya HiRISE zonda Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, podtverzhdayut, vo-pervyh, nalichie na Marse ob'ektov neyasnoi i trudnoob'yasnimoi morfologii i, vo-vtoryh, bol'shogo kolichestva obrazovanii s vysokim soderzhaniem zheleza, magniya i alyuminiya. Ob etom soobshaet CNews so ssylkoi na Mars Daily http://www.inauka.ru/news/article85958.html
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 21.09.2008 10:24, 2.1 KBait) Na Marse deistvitel'no imeyutsya neodnoznachnye ob'ekty so slozhnoi morfologiei. http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_009179_2305.jpg Yavno prisutstvuet nekii dinamichnyi impul's, dostatochno dinamichnyi process izmeneniya podvetrennoi chasti dyuny ili togo chto my vosprinimaem za dyunu. http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_009256_2580.jpg Soglasimsya vsyakie dinamicheskie processy na Marse eto lyubopytno. Poskol'ku dazhe vo vremya pylevoi buri dinamicheskoe vozdeistvie atmosfery nichtozhno i pri estestvennom hode veshei mozhet vyzyvat' tol'ko mikronnye napyleniya. Strannym mozhno schitat' ogromnoe raznoobrazie dyun, sravnimoe s raznoobraziem zhivotnogo mira na Zemle! http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_009159_2650.jpg http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_009138_2025.jpg http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_008968_2650.jpg http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_008860_1420.jpg http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_008641_2105.jpg http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_008208_2600.jpg http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_008767_2055.jpg http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_009130_1755.jpg 800 kbait http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA11174.jpg Feniks. Fotografii sublimacii l'da (vodyanogo?) pod platformoi Feniksa. Dve strannosti. vodyanoi led na Marse pochemu-to bystree sublimiruet v teni pri yavno bolee nizkoi temperature. Vtoroe, neobychen sam process sublimacii prohodyashii poetapno. Vnachale kak by vysyhanie vodyanogo l'da, zatem rastreskivanie obrazovavsheisya podsohshei korochki, zatem process povtoryaetsya vysyhanie novogo sloya. http://www.lyle.org/~markoff/processed/RS113EFF906276258_1D300MB.jpg http://www.lyle.org/~markoff/processed/RS113EFF906252214_1D1F6MB.jpg http://www.lyle.org/~markoff/processed/RS113EFF906252495_1D1F6MB.jpg I sudya po fotografii process sublimacii vodyanogo l'da v teni platformy prosto katastroficheski bystryi! http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3046/2870606820_42e0bd2aa0_b.jpg Imenno v teni gde kazalos' by temperatura nizhe.
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 24.09.2008 13:17, 4.8 KBait) Vopros na soobrazitel'nost'. Pochemu sublimaciya vodyanogo l'da proishodit v teni pod platformoi Feniksa i v teni stenok otrytyh transhei a strannym obrazom otsutstvuet v osveshennyh mestah na dne otrytyh transhei (gde kazalos' by snyat zashitnyi sloi peska i dazhe na bol'shuyu glubinu da i "vodyanoi led" nahoditsya ne v monolitnom sostoyanii a v poristom). 1. V samom dele kak v transheyah tak i v sluchae platformy sublimaciya proishodit bystree v teni. Na fotografiyah tol'ko chto otrytoi transhei s periodom 2-3 dnya kusochki nahodyasheesya imenno v teni stenki rva kak by ischezayut/isparyayutsya. ( Nizhe gif pokazyvayushii process sublimacii vodyanogo l'da. Imenno etot fakt NASA cherez vse SMI razreklamirovalo kak naglyadnoe dokazatel'stvo nalichiya mokrogo l'da na Marse (tipa chto eshe esli ne vodyanoi led). http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardawho/2595572920/sizes/o/ ) 2. No v teni temperatura zavedomo nizhe chem na osveshennom solncem meste, poskol'ku na Marse kak i na Zemle istochnikom tepla yavlyaetsya solnechnoe izluchenie. A v teni solnechnoe izluchenie otsutstvuet po faktu ili ego namnogo men'she. http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images/gallery/lg_7020.jpg http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardawho/2595404067/sizes/o/ TAK POChEMU ZhE TE ZhE SAMYE KUSOChKI VODYaNOGO L'DA LEZhAShIE NA SOLNCE NE ISPARYaYuTSYa, A NAHODYaShIESYa V TENI ISPARYaYuTSYa KATASTOFIChESKI BYSTRO?! Kak ob'yasnit' kazhusheesya protivorechie so zdravym smyslom i zakonami fiziki?! Soglasno kotorym otkrytoe dno transhei so snyatym izoliruyushim sloem suhogo peska i nahodyasheesya na otkrytom osveshennom solncem meste prosto obyazano bystro sublimirovat' led. A etogo ne proishodit. Tak v chem zhe delo? 3. Eshe strannost'. Odna iz poslednih transhei otryta na rekordnuyu glubinu 18 santimetrov chto nesomnenno glubzhe chem sdutyi pri posadke sloi pod platformoi tem ne menee vodnogo l'da ona ne obnaruzhivaet. Togda chto belelo pod dnishem pervoe vremya? A zatem tak bystro i stranno sublimirovalo ili isparilos'? http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardawho/2538239087/sizes/o/ Prichem korochka vodyanogo l'da pod dnishem Feniksa sublimiruet kak-to neestestvenno chto li, poetapno sloyami kotorye pochemu-to rastreskivayutsya chto ves'ma stranno i ne nablyudaetsya pri sublimacii ne vodyanogo l'da ne suhogo. http://www.lyle.org/~markoff/processed/RS113EFF906276258_1D300MB.jpg http://www.lyle.org/~markoff/processed/RS113EFF906252214_1D1F6MB.jpg http://www.lyle.org/~markoff/processed/RS113EFF906252495_1D1F6MB.jpg http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardawho/2819830116/sizes/o/ http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3046/2870606820_42e0bd2aa0_b.jpg (obratim vnimanie obrazovavsheesya yama nahoditsya v samom centre tenevoi zony!) Gipoteza. Predpolozhim sleduyushee. Esli pochva Marsa kak my schitaem molekulyarnaya biota, prichem osnovnoi napolnitel' kotoroi v polyarnyh raionah yavlyaetsya SO2 (a ne N2O) to vozmozhnost' nahozhdeniya uglekisloty pri stol' vysokih temperaturah vpolne uvyazyvaetsya s osobym sostoyaniem veshestva preobrazovannogo processami zhiznedeyatel'nosti. Tak zhe kak estestvenno schitat', chto processy zhiznedeyatel'nosti v molekulyarnoi biote v kachestve istochnika energii kak i na Zemle ispol'zuyut solnechnuyu energiyu (konechno poka neizvestnym dlya nas sposobom. Vprochem etim oblast' neizvestnogo ne ogranichivaetsya.) tak vot ishodya iz vyskazannogo predpolozheniya pochvy Marsa kak preobrazovannogo zhiznedeyatel'nost'yu veshestva, to perekrytie dostupa sveta yavlyaetsya estestvennoi prichinoi bystroi sublimacii v teni platformy (dnem vozduh izbytochno progrevaetsya vezde a izuchenie neobhodimoe dlya processov zhiznedeyatel'nosti otsutstvuet). V svoyu ochered' komochki grunta okazavshiesya v teni stenki otrytogo rva i po toi zhe prichine perekrytiya dostupa solnechnogo oblucheniya sublimiruyut tak zhe bystro kak i pod platformoi a dno transhei otkrytoe dlya solnechnogo sveta i sootvetstvenno obluchaemoe solncem ostaetsya celym i spokoino perenosit novoe sostoyanie. Prichem soglasno dannomu predpolozheniyu pochvy Marsa kak molekulyarnoi bioty, smazka fotografii traktuemaya naprimer kak raskachivanie Feniksa pri poryvah vetra (chto voobshe govorya malo veroyatno i dazhe nevozmozhno pri poryvah 5 m/s i plotnosti atmosfery 0.6% zemnoi atmosfery, a my znaem chto raskachivanie Feniksa pri 5m/ s isklyuchalos' by dazhe na Zemle a na tol'ko Marse pri ih mizernyh 0.6%!). http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/i mages/gallery/md_31039.jpg Tak vot razmazka fotografii pohozhe eto proyavlyayutsya tolchki i dvizheniya poverhnosti kak reakciya na neblagopriyatnoe vozdeistvie Feniksa (ten' neprivychnoe i neblagopriyatnoe yavlenie). A na ftografiyah s glubiny 18 sm vidno grunt vyazkii i podvizhnyi http://www.lyle.org/~markoff/processed/RS102EFF905271290_1BEF0MB.jpg Analogichnuyu reakciyu mozhno nablyudat' v meste posadki Opportuniti http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/6/image037.jpg Horosho vidno chto posle pribytiya platformy Opportuniti poverhnost' pod nim bukval'no skukozhilas'.
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 30.09.2008 18:49, 1.6 KBait) Dyuny. Slozhnye processy dvizheniya i povedeniya sravnimye s zhiznedeyatel'nost'yu. Dyuny hodyat stroem a zatem stroem atakuyut megadyuny kak murav'i gusenic [img]http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_008398_2570.jpg[/img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_008398_2570 http://hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu/PDS/EXTRAS/RDR/PSP/ORB_008300_008399/PSP_008398_2570/ PSP_008398_2570_RED.thumb.jpg Odna iz mnogih pishevyh cepochek Marsa (skaly-dyuny). Orientaciya dyun v edinuyu cepochku i zatyagivanie cepochek dyun magnitnym polem ustupov gornyh skal (dlya skal dyuny po-vidimomu yavlyayutsya prosto pishei ili toplivom. Takim obrazom my vidim libo analog konveernoi linii ugol'nogo razreza libo skotoboinyu myasokombinata) [img]http://hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu/PDS/EXTRAS/RDR/PSP/ORB_007600_007699/PSP_007676_1385/ PSP_007676_1385_RED.thumb.jpg[/img] Zatyagivanie cepochki dyuny na finishnoi stadii [img]http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/cut/PSP_007676_1385_cutb.jpg[/img] Skaly krupnym planom (uproshennaya analogiya process brosaniya uglya v topku) [img]http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/cut/PSP_007676_1385_cuta.jpg[/img] Set' pauka. Uzor napominayushii set' dorog SShA. [img]http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007372_2475.jpg[/img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_007372_2475 http://hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu/PDS/EXTRAS/RDR/PSP/ORB_007300_007399/PSP_007372_2475/ PSP_007372_2475_RED.thumb.jpg V dannom sluchae set' dorog pochti povsemestno dvuhkoleinaya. Bolee effektivnaya tehnologiya ispol'zovaniya veshestva i energii? [img]http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007650_2505.jpg[/img]
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 1.10.2008 7:45, 243 Bait) Dyuny. Roza vetrov i vse takoe. A u menya nemnogo est' somneniya, dyuny pohozhi na kakieto uzh sovsem samostoyatel'nye obrazovaniya. Hotya mozhno rassuzhdat' tak a mozhno i edak. Dlya prostogo odnoznachnogo ob'ya'sneniya, mnogo strannogo, Vy ne nahodite?
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 1.10.2008 17:44, 2.0 KBait) Roza vetrov. Soglasimsya chto dazhe dlya Zemli gde peschanye buri real'nost' dannaya fotografiya smotrelas' by kak-to neobychno, poskol'ku sprava net istochnika teh barhanov kotorye est' sleva. Esli zhe predstavit' chto na Marse dyuny kondensiruyutsya iz uglekisloty i skaly ih estestvennoe mesto rozhdeniya to eto obstoyatel'stvo tak zhe interesno kak i vse obsuzhdaemoe. 1.Vse dyuny kotorye issledovalis' Spiritom i Opport'yuniti soderzhali neskol'ko frakcii v tom chisle krupnye frakcii peska. 2.Atmosfera Marsa 0.6% plotnosti zemnoi atmosfery i vryad li veter pri dannoi plotnosti sposoben podnyat' peschinki vysoko dlya perenosa cherez holmy i skaly. A pesok dlya barhanov zhiznenno neobhodim tak podvetrennyi krutoi sklon obrazuetsya za schet stekaniya peska. 3.Da i vyglyadyat dyuny kak i vezde i eto nesmotrya na predpolagaemuyu separaciyu peska pri proseivanii cherez vysotu! a vot skaly naoborot kakie-to neobychnye i esli by menya lichno kto to sprosil kak dolzhny vyglyadet' marsianskii zavody po pererabotke dyun ya by pal'cem pokazal na eti skaly. 4.Na kryshe skal est' nechto napominayushee osadki to est' to chto mozhet obrazovat'sya pri isparenii ili pererabotke dyun no net dazhe priznakov melkoi ryabi kochuyushego peska eto v sluchae esli uporstvovat' i otstaivat' strannuyu gipotezu dvizheniya peska sprava na levo pri ego polnom otsutstvii. 5.A vot v sluchae nashei versii zatyagivaniya vse ochen' dazhe pohozhe (nekotoraya ekstravagantnost' idei konechno est' no chto eto menyaet v svyazi s uzhe skazannym i vozmozhno skazannym). 6.Tak vot po dannoi versii vse bolee menee uvyazyvaetsya. U stenki skal my vidim dolgo ili trudno perevarivaemye othody, na kryshe i vokrug osela pyl'. Da i vneshne dyuny vyglyadyat skoree kak esli by ih vytyanuli i estestvenno pri etom deformirovali a ne vyglyadyat formiruyushimisya iz struek peska stekayushego s kryshi, poskol'ku ne v etom meste dolzhno bylo by byt' nachalo kazhdoi gryady (naverhu est' lozhbinki kotorye postepenno prevratilis' by v ovragi, pesok zhe! abraziv!). Soglasimsya obe versii dostatochno pohozhi i razlichayutsya v nyuansah. Obsudim? Kto chto vidit za i protiv.
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 5.10.2008 13:48, 7.1 KBait) Obratim vnimanie dyuny nahodyatsya tol'ko v odin sloi i imeyut odinakovuyu formu ne zavisimo ot osobennostei rel'efa bud'-to na sklone v provale ili sredi kamnei, slozhnoe mnogosostavnoe napolnenie chto kraine neestestvenno i dazhe nevozmozhno dlya obychnyh barhanov. [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_009138_2025.jpg [/img] Podrobnee eto mozhno rassmotret' nizhe, ssylka na polnuyu versiyu panoramy 2mbaita. http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007055_2015_cut_c.jpg Teper' rassmotrim evolyuciyu Sinei dyuny zapolnyayushei krater Viktoriya ot nachala do ee nyneshnego sostoyaniya. [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_006943_1655.jpg [/img] [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007466_1655.jpg [/img] [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_006572_1665.jpg [/img] [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_006975_2010.jpg [/img] [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007475_1785.jpg [/img] [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007098_1685.jpg [/img] Vyskazhem sleduyushee predpolozhenie, sinie dyuny nahodyashiesya v kraterah v bol'shinstve sluchaev voznikayut iz-za ob'edineniya zmeevidnyh dyun, srastayushihsya poperechnymi peremychkami. No na dvuh nizhnih fotografiyah vidno chto proishodit ne tol'ko ob'edinenie sinei dyuny iz otdel'nyh zmeevidnyh dyun no idet i obratnyi process migracii elementov dyuny v svobodnoe sostoyanie. [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_005885_1825.jpg [/img] [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_008758_1720.jpg [/img] Na fotografii nizhe, po-vidimomu, process razmnozheniya. [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_009084_1745.jpg [/img] Odnovremennoe sushestvovanie po perimetru central'nogo kratera takogo Endurans ili Viktoriya vorotnichka iz bolee melkih kraterov s mini sinei dyunoi v kazhdom (sudya po cvetu) navodit na mysl' o dvoinom ili dazhe mnozhestvennoi forme razmnozheniya kak ot semyan tak i pobegov. Krater Viktoriya po perimetru sotni poltory melkih voronok, nekotorye sovsem svezhie. Opport'yuniti proehal mimo dvuh takih sovershenno noven'kih voronok! Nu ne mogut tak chasto padat' meteority i tak pricel'no! Imenno po perimetru na nekotorom udalenii. Togda kak na vnutrennem sklone vsego odin malen'kii krater. [img] http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/6/image076.jpg [/img] Krater Endurans vokrug melkie voronki. Meteority na peske? Bystro dolzhno zanesti. [img] http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/6/image085.jpg [/img] Dva obrazca malogo kratera-pobega pervyi u kratera Viktoriya sovsem noven'kii [img]http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20080102a/Sol1162B_P2299_L257F_th418.jpg [/ img] Staraya voronka, takih vokrug kratera Endurans nemalo [img] http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/6/image046.jpg [/img] Na nekotoryh fotografiyah mozhno uvidet' zastyvshie sobytiya iz zhizni nashei dyuny. Naprimer, napadenie na sineyu dyunu marsianskogo raka (po-vidimomu neskol'kih osobei, priblizhayushihsya k dyune pod poverhnost'yu). [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_006822_2060.jpg [/img] Neponyatnye processy razdeleniya a vozmozhno gibeli [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007502_1495.jpg [/img] Yavnye priznaki smerti. Vozmozhno i meteorit. [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007119_1700.jpg [/img] Eshe neskol'ko fotografii razlichnoi zhivnosti (takaya zhe igra prirody kak nu zemnyh vidov: kroliki, ezhiki, cherepahi). [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007229_1810.jpg [/img] Shupal'ca resnichki i shupal'ca kanavki http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/images/PSP/PSP_001440_1255/PSP_001440_1255_RED.browse.jpg Imenno resnichki kak organy adsorbiruyushie pyl' i SO2 pri ih prinuditel'noi ventilyacii, a ne shupal'ca os'minoga dlya mehanicheskogo zahvata i uderzhaniya. [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_008815_1660.jpg [/img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_008815_1660 Kanavki ulavlivayut osedayushuyu pyl' (vspomnim zapylennye SB Spirita!) zatem porciyami podnimayushimi pishu na verh (na fotografii eto sleva vnizu). Gde naprotiv kazhdoi kanavki-shupal'ca uzhe nahoditsya ranee podnyataya porciya, vozmozhno uzhe nasyshennaya SO2 i poluperevarennaya. [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007018_1255.jpg [/img] Nemnogo v inom, drugom vide ne vse tozhe samoe, ne hvatatel'nye a pogloshayushie glotatel'nye organy. Dyuny v glubokom kratere a sila vetra pri formirovanii formy ne igraet roli?? Ved' veter v glubokom kratere zavedomo slabee. http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_007560_2450 Vnutri odnogo i togo zhe kratera raznonapravlennye dyuny http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_007558_1305 Sharovoe skoplenie dyun v smysle dvizhenie kak by k centru skopleniya. Kakim dolzhen byt' veter?? http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_007547_2415 Dyuny v skopleniyah imeyut raznoobraznuyu formu i orientaciyu ne imeyushuyu analogii u zemnyh barhanov. Krome etogo raznoobrazie form isklyuchaet vetrovuyu versiyu (vezde v odin sloi i odnotipnoi formy, krome etogo vezde prisutstvuet molodnyak). http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_009075_1800_RED.thumb.jpg http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_003800_1325_RED.thumb.jpg http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007172_2570_RED.thumb.jpg V pol'zu biogennoi versii dyun govorit harakter izmenenii nablyudaemyh s periodom vo vremeni http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007805_2505_cut.jpg A takzhe ogromnoe raznoobrazie form organizacii veshestva prosto nemyslimoe dlya peschanyh ili pylevyh barhanov. Razmery dyun ot 50 do 500 metrov. [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007713_2570.jpg [/img] [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_005779_1775.jpg [/img] [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007199_2580.jpg [/img] [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_008847_2580.jpg [/img] [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_009159_2650.jpg [/img] [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_008208_2600.jpg [/img] [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_008485_2640.jpg [/img] [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_008398_2570.jpg [/img] Nalichie molodnyaka (nebol'shih dyun soprovozhdayushih vzroslyh osobei raspolozhennyh neskol'ko obosoblenno vsegda v odin sloi) [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_008754_2570.jpg [/img] A takzhe sledy raspada i razlozheniya. [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007219_2650.jpg [/img] [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_008318_2600.jpg [/img] I mnozhestvo inyh form zhizni o kotoryh my pogovorim v sleduyushem vyhode nashego rasskaza. [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_009130_1755.jpg [/img] [img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_008705_1520.jpg [/img] Dlya teh kto imeet vozmozhnost' kachat' mnogo megabaitnye (300-1000) fotografii kotorye pri zhelanii legko naiti na saite NASA http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 7.10.2008 9:42, 2.0 KBait) Vnimanie eto interesno! Po-vidimomu, na fotografii nichto inoe kak sledy razlozheniya ili sledy raspada marsianskoi dyuny (no ne kak ne sledy smerchei). [img]http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_005397_1270.jpg[/img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_005397_1270 Skoree vsego na fotografii my deistvitel'no vidim sledy vysohshei dyuny. Vo-pervyh, forma pyaten pohozha na dyuny. Vo-vtoryh, mezhdu temnymi polosami ne vidno kamnei. Sledovatel'no, chast' kazhdoi dyuny raspadaetsya na nekie chernye polosy, a chast' vypala v osadok (pyl'), zasypavshei kamni. [img]http://hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu/PDS/EXTRAS/RDR/PSP/ORB_005300_005399/PSP_005397_1270/ PSP_005397_1270_RED.thumb.jpg[/img] Horosho prosmatrivaetsya shodstvo pyaten s uchetom vtorichnyh osobennostei dyuny, naprimer, u pyaten takzhe vidno sil'no vystupayushuyu levuyu skulu (smerchi risuyut dyuny?). - Sledovatel'no my vidim sledy pogibshego stada dyun?! Sostav mozhet byt' konechno tol'ko SO2 plyus nebol'shoe kolichestvo pyli. V dal'neishem pyl' postepenno razneset veter chast' poglotyat kamni. Razletitsya i pautina temnyh volokon. http://hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu/PDS/EXTRAS/RDR/PSP/ORB_005300_005399/PSP_005397_1270/ PSP_005397_1270_RED.thumb.jpg Foto iz ranee opublikovannoi stat'i http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/image3078.jpg http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/image3077.jpg Chernye volokna ne mogut byt' ne chem inym kak ostatkami takih zhe raspavshihsya dyun chto i vyshe. http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/image3073.jpg http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/image3081.jpg Kak vidno po ostavshimsya sledam dyuny razlichayutsya po sostavu, no predstavlyaetsya ne principial'no. Glavnym sostavlyayushim prosto fizicheski dolzhna byt' uglekislota. Na Marse prosto bol'she nechemu. Krome etogo dobavlyayu ssylku na ranee ne otkryvshuyusya panoramu. Vysokokachestvennaya panorama 3.2Mbaita. Ves'ma sovetuyu posmotret'! Vblizi dyuny vyglyadyat kak zhivye yashericy ili dinozavry! http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/wallpaper/2560/PSP_009138_2025.jpg
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 2.07.2009 23:47, 62 Bait) Prodolzhenie Otkrytogo pis'ma 9 chast' http://www.7tem.ru/1.htm
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 10.03.2010 10:19, 3.2 KBait) Est' novaya informaciya. Peremeshenie grebnei marsianskih dyun. Oni dvigayutsya i bystro! http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA12860.jpg http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/targetFamily/Mars?start=0 Fotografii snyaty 30 iyunya i 14 oktyabrya 2009g. Uchityvaya otsutstvie sil'nogo vetra skorost' peremesheniya, chrezvychaino vysoka, poryadka dva metra za 70dnei! Eto oficial'no, no zritel'no po fotografiyam otdel'nye chasti dyun smestilis' na 3-5 metrov. Navernyaka eto ne rekord - raznovidnostei dyun na Marse mnozhestvo, da i krome dyun na Marse mnogo drugih neobychnyh form organizacii veshestva. Chto kasaetsya peremesheniya grebnei, vo-pervyh, dyuny pokryty zhestkoi korochkoi iz melkih sharikov i komochkov svyazannogo peska i takoe sostoyanie predmeta ne pozvolyaet svobodno peremeshat'sya posredstvom perenosa vetrom. Togda kak vse izuchennye dyuny imeyut imenno takuyu poverhnost', poetomu nablyudaemoe peremeshenie grebnei ne mozhet byt' perenosom peska nahodyashegosya v svobodnom sostoyanii i nanesennogo na poverhnost' zastyvshih dyun. http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/7/image020.jpg http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/7/image021.jpg Arhiv NASA http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20040318a.html Grebni predstavlyayut soboi nechto organichnoe soedinennoe so vsei massoi dyun: v kotorom grebni - odno celoe i nahodyatsya v tom zhe sostoyanii chto i ostal'naya dyuna. Otsyuda peremeshenie grebnei eto dinamika samoi dyuny kak organizovannogo (zhivogo!) veshestva Tak zhe obratim vnimanie, nesmotrya na to chto dyuny spolzayut v krater (pesok obrushivaetsya?) na poverhnosti dyun net treshin, net razryvov otdelivshihsya plastov kak eto bylo by v dannom sluchae na Zemle. Vse eto vidno ne tol'ko s orbity, no sfotografirovano vblizi Opport'yuniti na sklonah kratera Viktoriya. I eto vse pri skorosti vetra 2-4 m/s, poskol'ku v techenii iyulya oktyabrya 2009 goda pylevyh bur' ne bylo, a v drugoe vremya veter na Marse kraine slabyi i eto pri 0.6% plotnosti zemnoi atmosfery. Neestestvenno bol'shaya dlya uslovii Marsa dinamika dyun, ih ogromnoe raznoobrazie i mnogie drugie osobennosti vpolne svidetel'stvuyut o nalichie processov svyazannyh so slozhnoi vnutrennei organizaciei. Fotografii vysyhayushih dyun ili chto v dannom sluchae bolee pravil'no process razlozheniya. http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_005397_1270.jpg http://hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu/PDS/EXTRAS/RDR/PSP/ORB_005300_005399/PSP_005397_1270/ PSP_005397_1270_RED.thumb.jpg Neobhodimo sravnit' i eti fotografii do i posle. Esli temnye polosy za eto vremya smestilis', to eto volokna, niti karkasa. Hotya raspolzanie volokon brosaetsya v glaza i po etoi fotografii. Tak zhe kak otsutstvie prisypannyh kamnei vblizi samogo kraya dyuny i voobshe otsutstvie dazhe priznakov teh samyh bystro dvizhushihsya grebnei dyun, ved' obychnyi pesok pri razduvanii dolzhen sozdat' mikrodyuny i otdel'nye grebni, on ne mozhet uletuchit'sya bessledno vse eto govorit o neprichastnosti obychnogo peska, a banal'nom dlya uslovii Marsa processe razlozheniya uglekislotnogo napolnitelya. Starye ssylki: Mars i Luna http://tonos.ru/articles/marslife http://www.sciteclibrary.ru/rus/catalog/pages/9717.html http://www.sciteclibrary.ru/rus/catalog/pages/10005.html Kremnievaya forma zhizni na Zemle http://www.bolesmir.ru/index.php?content=text&name=o72
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (T. V. Mishurova, 11.03.2010 11:09, 149 Bait) Vse eto bezuslovno interesno. Shariki, peremeshayushiesya dyuny. Stol'ko eshe neizvedannogo! No tol'ko po fotografiyam trudno delat' pravil'nye vyvody...
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 25.05.2010 17:54, 188 Bait) Ssylka na Chast'-9, izmenena i dopolnena + 30 fotografii (v tom chisle provalivshiisya za zimu Feniks) http://www.yugzone.ru/articles/mars/ http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA13158.jpg
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 20.08.2010 15:33, 366 Bait, otvetov: 2) Na saite "Medvedev.DA", novaya tema mozhet byt' organizovanna posle prosmotra moderatorom. Mesyac nazad sbrosil neskol'ko fotografii, pozavchera povtoril, dobaviv eshe neskol'ko... 19 avgusta (v den' povtora) tema nakonec poyavilas'. Uf, kontakt sostoyalsya! Marsiane my vas zametili :) esi chto zdes' http://www.medvedev-da.ru/forum.php?PAGE_NAME=read&FID=15&TID=3558
• Re[2]: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (M. S. Afanas'ev, 24.08.2010 19:35, 392 Bait, otvetov: 1) Pochemu to zhizn' na Marse ishetsya na poverhnosti planety,no eto zhe na Zemle ideal'nye usloviya dlya biologicheskogo na poverhnosti,a na drugih planetah na poverhnosti oni dlya nego neprigodnye.Pochemu zhe ona ne mozhet byt' pod poverhnost'yu,gde mogut byt' vpolne podhodyashie usloviya? Ob etom est' v fantastike.I videt' oni mogut s pomosh'yu radiovoln ili ul'trazvuka
• Re[3]: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (Yu. K. Vakulenko, 25.08.2010 15:21, 499 Bait) Bez chego luchshe oboitis',tak eto bez myslennyh svyazei s obitatelyami Marsa i Saturna,dlya zemlyanina oni kak minimum vredny.Eti planety za predelami chelovecheskoi perspektivy.Izvestna sud'ba narodov stroivshih svoyu zhizn' na svyazi s nimi:buino- voinstvennyi dr.Rim i okamenelo-bezdushnaya dr.Iudeya.A vot obshenie s progressivnym Yupiterom,blagorodnym Uranom i vsemi drugimi, myslennaya svyaz' s nimi - more poleznyh vpechatlenii,i eto takzhe podtverzhdaetsya istoriei
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 12.03.2012 9:45, 2.7 KBait)

  [img]http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2009/thumb/ESP_016036_1370.jpg[/img]

  20kb

  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2009/thumb/ESP_016036_1370.jpg

  NASA JPL 5mb

  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/wallpaper/2560/ESP_016036_1370.jpg

  Obshii vid

  http://hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu/PDS/EXTRAS/RDR/ESP/ORB_016000_016099/ESP_016036_1370/ESP_016036_1370_RED.browse.jpg

  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_016036_1370

  Tak vot esli otkryt' obshii vid, to vidno chto plotnost' kamnei-valunov-bulyzhnikov mezhdu ryadami dyun neodinakova, vverhu plotnost' kamnei namnogo vyshe chem vnizu fotografii, gde po-vidimomu gryady dyun uzhe pobyvali.

  Vyvod prostoi, dyuny dvigayas' snizu vverh okuchivayut valuny, i sblizhaya dyunnye gryady lovyat i pererabatyvayut-pogloshayut eti samye na pervyi vzglyad prostye kamni. Eto mozhno prosledit' po sleduyushim priznakam. Shirokie polya mezhdu gryadami dyun prakticheski pustye (perelovili), i naoborot mezhdu sblizivshimisya gryadami plotnost' valunov znachitel'no vyshe (sobrali v kuchu i lovyat). Pri povtornom fotografirovanii peremeshenie dyun i valunov budet prisutstvovat' obyazatel'no.

  Esli ne chitali, rekomenduyu chast' 9

  Otkrytoe pis'mo kollektivu NASA. Galereya fotografii.

   Analiz nalichiya priznakov zhizni na Marse. Triumf!

  http://www.yugzone.ru/articles/mars/

• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 7.04.2012 0:14, 8.1 KBait)

   [img]http://galspace.spb.ru/phpBB2/download/file.php?id=685&t=1[/img]

  http://galspace.spb.ru/phpBB2/download/file.php?id=685&t=1

  Ris 1. Fragment, "Obshii vid" skopleniya dyun v uproshennom vide.

  [img]http://galspace.spb.ru/phpBB2/download/file.php?id=684&mode=view[/img]

  http://galspace.spb.ru/phpBB2/download/file.php?id=684&mode=view

  Ris 2. Verhnyaya (perednyaya) chast' skopleniya dyun.

  [img]http://galspace.spb.ru/phpBB2/download/file.php?id=683&mode=view[/img]

  http://galspace.spb.ru/phpBB2/download/file.php?id=683&mode=view

  Ris 3. Nizhnyaya chast' skopleniya dyun.

  Polnyi vid fotografii privedennyh fragmentov nahoditsya nizhe po ssylke Obshii vid.

  Vydelim sleduyushee: sudya po progalinam mezhdu dyunami (sm. fragmenty foto) i schitaya ih obrazovavshimisya posle smesheniya dyun v storonu mozhno schitat' chto pod dyunami kamnei net.

  Marsianskie dyuny rassheplyayut, perevarivayut marsianskie kamni. Primerno kak Zemnye korovy travu. No sudya po primenyaemoi hitroi taktike dyun ispol'zovanie ohvatov, okuchivanie mozhno predpolozhit' chto kamni sposobny peremeshat'sya i znachitel'no bystree dyun, esli ne vse to mnogie. Izmenenie cveta poverhnosti i prakticheski polnoe otsutstvie kamnei v nizhnei chasti fotografii opyat' zhe govorit o tom zhe dyuny ispol'zuyut kamni v pishu i tak zhe kak i zemnye formy zhizni posle pererabotki pishi vydelyayut ekskrementy.

  I eshe, nalichie kamnei do poslednih nizhnih dyun, svidetel'stvuet o nalichii organizovannogo delezha pishi mezhdu vsemi chlenami sem'i ili stada.

  [img]http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2011/details/ESP_016036_1370.jpg[/img]

  FOTO NASA JPL Mars, peremeshenie dyun i kamnei 28 dekabrya 2009

  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_016036_1370

  3mb Obshii vid

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  foto vysokogo razresheniya 4mb

  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/wallpaper/2560/ESP_016036_1370.jpg

  Povtornye fotografii etogo zhe uchastka cherez dva zemnyh goda ili odin marsianskii

  12 noyabrya 2011

  http://hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu/PDS/EXTRAS/RDR/ESP/ORB_024800_024899/ESP_024818_1370/ESP_024818_1370_RED.browse.jpg

  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_024818_1370

  4 dekabrya 2011

  http://hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu/PDS/EXTRAS/RDR/ESP/ORB_025100_025199/ESP_025108_1370/ESP_025108_1370_RED.browse.jpg

  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_025108_1370

  Fotografii dlinnyh dyun imeyut povtory, sdelannye rovno cherez odin marsianskii god. Smeshenie dyun sostavlyaet edva nablyudaemuyu velichinu v 1-2 metra, chto zametno tol'ko na fotografiyah samogo vysokogo razresheniya (smeshenie ravno diametru samogo melkogo kamnya).

   

  Privedem eshe neskol'ko fotografii skoplenii dlinnyh dyun na kotoryh yavnye priznaki nekogo vzaimodeistviya mezhdu dvumya otdel'nymi skopleniyami.

  [img]http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2011/details/PSP_008208_2600.jpg[/img]

  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_008208_2600

  Foto NASA JPL

  http://hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu/PDS/EXTRAS/RDR/ESP/ORB_024900_024999/ESP_024988_1370/ESP_024988_1370_RED.browse.jpg

  http://hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu/PDS/EXTRAS/RDR/ESP/ORB_016300_016399/ESP_016338_1370/ESP_016338_1370_RED.browse.jpg

  Yavnye priznaki "peregovorov" ili dr. "kontakta".

   

  http://hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu/PDS/EXTRAS/RDR/ESP/ORB_014400_014499/ESP_014401_1360/ESP_014401_1360_RED.browse.jpg

  http://hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu/PDS/EXTRAS/RDR/ESP/ORB_023800_023899/ESP_023829_1350/ESP_023829_1350_RED.browse.jpg

  http://hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu/PDS/EXTRAS/RDR/ESP/ORB_019000_019099/ESP_019052_2600/ESP_019052_2600_RED.browse.jpg

  http://hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu/PDS/EXTRAS/RDR/ESP/ORB_024200_024299/ESP_024203_2600/ESP_024203_2600_RED.browse.jpg

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  No zdes' my hotim vydelit' kak zemnoe razlichie dyun mezhdu soboi po podobiyu razlichiya: oleni, losi, arhary tak i to chto uslovnyi obed dyunovogo skopleniya (sem'i, stada), po vsei vidimosti, ishodya iz nablyudaemogo razlichiya za dva goda, primerno raven po vremeni 500-1000 let. Chto daet razlichie v skorosti processov zhiznedeyatel'nosti k zemnym zhivotnym v usrednennom vide v million raz. To est' ih kosmonavt v sluchae nalichiya odevaet skafandr, a operator osushestvlyaet prinyatie resheniya ne sekundy kak u nas, a dni-nedeli dlya prinyatiya "mgnovennogo resheniya" ili mesyacy-gody dlya etogo samogo oblacheniya v skafandr.

  Obobshaya mnogie fotografii dyunovyh skoplenii i fakt postoyannogo otsutstviya kamnei v progalinah mezhdu plotnymi i bol'shimi formirovaniyami dyun mozhno sdelat' vyvod. Dyuny potreblyayut kamni v pishu i rasstoyanie mezhdu skopleniyami dyun, dolzhno zaviset' ot skorosti rosta kamennyh zaroslei.

  Chto iz obshih predstavlenii daet vremya v desyatki i sotni tysyach i dazhe neskol'ko millionov let dlya rosta kamnya do razmerov uslovnye: metry - desyatki metrov v diametre.

  Opyat' zhe iz fakta ostatochnogo kolichestva kamnei v meste prohozhdeniya dyunovogo skopleniya, kamni mogut kak to vyzhivat' ili pryatat'sya vozmozhno pod poverhnost'yu ili imeya zashitnyi pancir' pozvolyayushii perezhdat' nashestvie. Opyat' zhe po vsei vidimosti dyuny imeya bolee temnyi cvet i otsyuda povyshennuyu temperaturu, razlagayut kamni kotorye v otlichie ot zemnoi rastitel'nosti soderzhat ne vodu a biologicheski svyazannuyu uglekislotu. Sobstvenno kamennaya dobavka v pishu, po-vidimomu, ne obyazatel'na, ili ne obyazatel'na dlya vseh vidov dyun. Nekotorye dyuny vpolne obhodyatsya kormom v vide uglekislogo gaza iz atmosfery i poverhnostnym sloem grunta. Eti razlichiya i opredelyayut skorost' peremesheniya, razmer, formu, cvet (himicheskii sostav) i dr. osobennosti.

  No krome sobstvenno zhivyh dyun i ih skoplenii (sem'ya, stado, staya), opyat' zhe po vsei vidimosti na fotografiyah prisutstvuyut i rukotvornye dyuny (kolony mashin). Mashiny sozdannye dlya konkretnyh celei peremesheniya veshestva v zadannye raiony, po podobiyu teh zhe zemnyh mashin analogichnogo naznacheniya. Foto dyun mnogochislenny i NASA uzhe primerno 5 let issleduet opisannoe zdes'. Po lyuboi privedennoi ssylke vnizu stranicy imeyutsya dopolnitel'nye ssylki prosmotr kotoryh pozvolyaet vzglyanut' na evolyuciyu proishodyashego vo vremeni, po analogii i ryadom.

  
  
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 17.04.2012 22:07, 1.5 KBait) KRIZIS PLANETARNOGO CIKLA UNIVERSAL'NO' ISTORII
  A. D. Panov NIIYaF MGU, g. Moskva
  http://spkurdyumov.narod.ru/Panov.htm
  
  Material razroznennyi. Glavnyi tezis Panova, predbiologicheskii period na Zemle otsutstvuet (klyushka Panova, zhizn' nachalas' srazu, kak tol'ko slozhilis' sootvetstvuyushie usloviya), tak vot panspermiya ob'yasnyaet otsutstvie predbiologicheskogo cikla tem chto predvaritel'nyi cikl zarozhdeniya zhizni proshel na dr. planetah i na Zemlyu zhizn' byla zanesena uzhe v gotovom vide, v nashem sluchae eto mikroby. V sluchae esli zhizn' vezde odinakovaya "belkovaya" to panspermiya rabotaet. Est' nekotoraya natyanutost', no terpimo. A vot esli zhizn' est' na Lune, Marse, Venere (Ksanfomaliti) i vezde svoya sobstvennaya to otsutstvie predbiologicheskogo perioda, ob'yasnit' panspermiei nel'zya. Ostaetsya akt deistviya razvitoi civilizacii, voznikshei gorazdo ranee. Chto kasaetsya razlichii, to Bog po opredeleniyu tvorit Mir zhelaniem, on nad zakonami prirody i ego deistviya eto kazhdyi raz chudo. Razvitaya civilizaciya kak i zemnaya deistvuet v ramkah zakonov prirody, ispol'zuya znaniya i zatrachivaya energiyu. I kak nashe obshestvo, razvitaya civilizaciya eto obshestvo imeyushee Konstituciya i UK, reguliruyushie ee vnutrennie i vneshnie otnosheniya. Chto ves'ma aktual'no v preddverii priznaniya nalichiya inache zhivogo. Konflikty neizbezhny v sluchae teh zhe podhodov k issledovaniyu, chto i seichas. V dannoe vremya nashi metody issledovaniya kak minimum besceremonny, i dazhe agressivny. Eto ne terpimo na Zemle ne govorya uzhe v Kosmose.
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 1.10.2012 13:21, 8.8 KBait)

  [img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8180/8040687427_6cfdea63a8.jpg[/img]

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  http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardawho/

  NASA JPL Curiosity sol 0053-0054 krater Geila, Mars.

  [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/46/Barbe-de-Jupiter.JPG/300px-Barbe-de-Jupiter.JPG[/img]

  [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ru/thumb/d/de/Kustistyi_lishainik.JPG/300px-Kustistyi_lishainik.JPG[/img]

  http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lishainiki

  [img]http://www.ecosystema.ru/08nature/lich/040.jpg[/img]

  http://www.ecosystema.ru/08nature/lich/040.htm 

  [img]http://myfl.ru/files/u627/flowers/960a7dae5575c92c5db87914e47ff0fa.jpg[/img]

  http://myfl.ru/blog/vyrashchivanie-litopsov-zhivykh-kamnei 

  Pohozhe na voloknistye struktury, marsianskie lishainiki, mhi, litopsy.

• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 2.10.2012 8:40, 3.6 KBait)

  Foto NASA JPL

  [img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8319/8045153797_a7d0da2264_z.jpg[/img]

  15 mb http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardawho/8045153797/sizes/o/in/photostream/

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  http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardawho/

  Curiosity sol 0054 -0055

  http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=28389

  Foto s orbity.

  Verhnyaya fotografiya v polnom vide dostatochno tyazhelaya, no otchetlivo vidny sledy peremesheniya peretaskivaniya v vide borozd i kanavok, prohodyashih sleva napravo. Osobenno zametny borozdy v srednei chasti fotografii, kamni nahodyashiesya v etom meste, po krainei mere mnogie iz nih tak zhe kak by razvernuty i sorientirovany po yavno obrazovannym vmyatinami kolee ili proselochnoi doroge.

  Curiosity, po-vidimomu, s momenta posadki interesovalo imenno eto mesto i imenno v vyshe opisannoi versii naezzhennogo trakta. Podozhdem rezul'tatov issledovaniya kamnei lazer + spektrometr, no i to, chto na fotografii vpolne.

   

  PS

  O retushi, gifov mnogo, detali raznoobraznye i mnogochislennye, ot tysyach peschinok do kusochkov v neskol'ko santimetrov. NASA ved' ne otricaet vseh etih peremeshenii, ni mikro ne kamnei. Bukval'no: "dvizhenie kamnei izvestno davno, neponyatno chto ih peremeshaet" - moi pereskaz teksta iz obsuzhdeniya na NK.

• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 9.10.2012 8:34, 925 Bait) NASA JPL sol
  3092 Opport'yuniti
  [img]http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/p/3092/1P402676979EFFBW19P2572R4M1-BR.JPG[/img]
  http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/p/3092/1P402676979EFFBW19P2572R4M1.JPG
  3084 Opport'yuniti
  [img]http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/p/3084/1P401968552EFFBW00P2569L5M1-BR.JPG[/img]
  http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/p/3084/1P401968552EFFBW00P2569L5M1.JPG
  3091 Opport'yuniti
  [img]http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/n/3091/1N402592550EFFBW19P1978L0M1-BR.JPG[/img]
  
  Panorama 1.4 mb
  http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20121003a/PIA16222-Fig1-Sol3054navcam-Right.jpg
  Opport'yuniti nemnogo proehal k centru kratera i teper' pokazyvaet neponyatnye fotografii, pohozhe na inei pokryvayushii treshiny. Ili vystupayushuyu iz treshin sol' - konechno nechto inoe. No process imeyushii mesto, a ne zritel'naya illyuziya.
  
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 23.10.2012 8:43, 2.4 KBait) Izmenenie poverhnosti gify
  [img]http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/6/image067.jpg[/img]
  
  [img]http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/6/image070.jpg[/img]
  
  [img]http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1424/1041371567_ec20f84d8e_o.gif[/img]
  
  [img]http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4153/4841872446_932ff3e9a6_z.jpg[/img]
  http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardawho/
  
  Foto NASA JPL Opport'yuniti izmenenie sleda v techenie vos'mi let proishodilo postoyanno. Obratim vnimanie, na fotografii prisutstvuet yavnaya anomaliya komok peska vyshe razvoroshennogo mesta ne izmenilsya. Togda kak v sluchae vetrovoi versii etot komok naibolee podverzhen erozii.
  Dlya prosmotra izmenenii neobhodimo otkryt' gif.
  http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4153/4841872446_d8851e3c1d_o.gif]http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4153/4841872446_d8851e3c1d_o.gif
  http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1424/1041371567_ec20f84d8e_o.gif]http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1424/1041371567_ec20f84d8e_o.gif
  Foto NASA JPL Curiosity sol 0074
  http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1230/1260309822_ab270f164f_o.gif]http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1230/1260309822_ab270f164f_o.gif
  
  Takzhe paradoksal'no to, chto sled zarastaet ravnomerno, togda, kak cherez kazhdyi metr sled ne pridavlen i dolzhen byt' vynesen po vetru. No sled vyravnivaetsya, tak kak esli by byl ukatan absolyutno rovno. Soglasimsya v sluchae analogii zemnogo peska lezhashego poverh tverdoi poverhnosti veter nepremenno ogolil nekotorye mesta.
  
  [img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8470/8108533781_5ac2d43074_z.jpg[/img]
  
  http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardawho/8108533781/sizes/o/in/photostream/
  Curiosity sol 0074
  Vosem' let postoyannogo zarastaniya sleda rovera ostavlennogo na tysyachah dyun, dokazyvaet effekt opredelenno imeet mesto.
  No razglazhivanie peska otsutstvuet v sluchae pereneseniya peska na nekotoroe rasstoyanie.
  Pri etih usloviyah - perepad temperatury i solnechnyi veter, sohranyayutsya v tom zhe vide. Sledovatel'no, otsutstvie razglazhivaniya vynesennogo peska dokazyvaet ne prichastnost': vetra, perepada temperatur, solnechnogo vetra kak postoyannogo i neizmenno deistvuyushego faktora.
  Neobhodimo naiti otvet na drugoi vopros.
  - Pochemu ne razglazhivaetsya pesok, otdelennyi ot mesta nahozhdeniya na nekotoroe rasstoyanie. Primerno na 10 - 15 sm i dalee.
  http://forum.web.ru/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=2579&start=360
  Podrobnoe obsuzhdenie temy zarastaniya sleda.
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 24.10.2012 0:26, 5.7 KBait)

   

  Foto NASA JPL krater Indevor Opport'yuniti

   

  Pro Marsian, est' v ih seleniyah... i lyudi!

   

  [img]http://roadtoendeavour.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/pano-2.jpg[/img]

  http://roadtoendeavour.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/pano-2.jpg

  http://www.marstravel.org/2011_08_01_archive.html

  Angloyazychnyi marsianskii sait, krater Indevor.

  Stely, pamyatniki, obeliski s nadpisyami i risunkami, komu za chto i kogda.

  Marsianskoe kladbishe nahoditsya v kratere Indevor na holme 'ork. Vse sooruzhenie, skoree vsego memorial'nyi kompleks plyus sistema utilizacii i zahoronenii.

  Panorama kratera Indevor 3 oktyabrya 2012, posle togo kak Opport'yuniti spustilsya vniz na pod'ezde k poselku.

    [img]http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20121003a/PIA16222-...1-Sol3054navcam-Right_br2.jpg[/img]

  4 mb http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20121003a/PIA16222-Fig1-Sol3054navcam-Right.jpg

  http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20121003a.html

  http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/

  Poselok vblizi, novaya obrabotka cveta foto den' 3107

  [img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8053/8113478421_174626c972_c.jpg[/img]

  4 mb http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8053/8113478421_9cc42a429c_k.jpg

  http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardawho/8113462989/sizes/l/in/photostream/

  Pri uvelichenii fotografii vidno chto eto obrazovanie pohozhe na poluprozrachnyi shater s vnutrennim prostranstvom. Vhod pered nami pravee. Absolyutno orientirovochno detskii sad marsianskih kamnei libo letnii pavil'on dlya otdyha.

   

  [img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8465/8113462989_97ce5d1d26_c.jpg[/img]

  4 mb http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8465/8113462989_89e50fd69a_k.jpg

  http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardawho/8113462989/sizes/k/in/photostream/

  Vozmozhno, vhod v zimnie pomeshenie - libo nekoe sooruzhenie proizvodstvennogo ili bytovogo naznacheniya, nu skazhem prachechnaya ili ubornaya.

   

  Vid s orbity.

  [img]http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2011/details/ESP_021892_1775.jpg[/img]

  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_021892_1775

  4mb http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/wallpaper/2560/ESP_021892_1775.jpg

  vse fotografii Indevor

  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/results.php?keyword=Endeavour+

  Na etoi malen'koi fotografii poselok sprava. Kladbishe i memorial'nyi kompleks sleva.

  Arhiv NASA

  http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/

  http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/opportunity.html

  Arhiv Flaiker

  http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardawho/

   

• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 28.10.2012 13:54, 4.3 KBait)

  FOTO NASA JPL Curiosity

   

  [img]http://cs308316.userapi.com/v308316574/2c8a/pCbV2BuweT4.jpg[/img]

  [quote author=Bulgakov link=topic=52854.msg2147815#msg2147815 date=1351052179] Curiosity nashel ne obychnye "kamni" i NASA imi ochen' zainteresovalas'. Hronologiya takova: na 71 sol oni ego rasstrelyali 3 vystrelami, vmeste s neskol'kimi drugimi celyami. Na 72 sol oni ego sfotografirovali vo vseh cvetovyh fil'trah, vmeste s neskol'kimi drugimi ob'ektami. Na 76-i sol oni ego (i tol'ko ego) snyali celoi seriei kadrov ChemCam s raznoi glubinoi rezkosti, chto pozvolyaet rassmotret' vse detali kamnya vo vseh podrobnostyah. Za chetyre dnya oni vpolne mogli poluchit' rezul'taty obstrela, i eto zastavilo ih snova vernut'sya k nemu. Oficial'nyh soobshenii poka ne delali. [/quote]

  http://www.astronomy.ru/forum/index.php/topic,52854.2180.html#quickreply

   

  [img]http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/videos/movies/CoM20121026/CoM20121026-th.jpg[/img]

   

  Video.

  http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/videos/

  http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/videoarchive/

   Foto 0071

  http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/?s=71&camera=CHEMCAM%5F

  http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/?s=71&camera=MAST%5F

   

  Pohozhe na oblomok tehnologicheskogo izdeliya. Vozmozhno kleima i otverstiya dlya trehfaznogo toka. Spektral'nyi analiz podtverzhdaet nalichie dvuh materialov.

   

  NASA's  Mars rover Curiosity on Sol 79 (2012-10-26

  [img]http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00079/mcam/0079ML0593000000E1_DXXX-br.jpg[/img]

  http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/?s=79&camera=MAST%5F

   

  Pogoda. Veter 2m/c

  http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/mission/instruments/environsensors/rems/

   

  Proby peska ulozhennye na lotok sduvaet, (sduvaet vzyato v kavychki, peremeshenie ili peretaskivanie peska ne svyazano s vetrom!) poskol'ku: vo-pervyh, rech' idet ne tol'ko o peschinkah no i melkih kameshkah, vo-vtoryh, vysokaya dinamika izmeneniya probnoi kuchi peschinok i otsutstvie vetra vyshe 2m/s zamerennyh anemometrom. Napomnim Curiosity imeet dve gruppy anemometrov, k tomu zhe real'no fizicheskii veter sposobnyi peretaskivat' melkie kameshki nepremenno podnyal pyl', a etogo net. Sledovatel'no, rech' idet o napravlennyh silah sposobnyh peremeshat' ne elektricheskie predmety. Vo mnogih soobsheniyah, naprimer chast' 6, 7 i 8 uzhe pisalos' ob analogichnom po fizike yavlenii, proyavlyavshemsya vo mnozhestve sluchaev.

  http://tonos.ru/articles/marslife6

  [img]http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/6/image011.jpg[/img]

   

  Naprimer, sluchai imevshii mesto pri kasanii poverhnosti posadochnogo modulya Opport'yuniti kogda napravlenie dvizheniya modulya bylo izmeneno bolee chem na 120 gradusov, k tomu zhe posle kratkovremennyh ostanovok modul' vnov' prodolzhal dvizhenie poka ne okazalsya v nebol'shom kratere Igl.

  K anomal'nomu mozhno otnesti i mnogochislennye zaderzhki i propuski fotografii pryam ne znayu chto i dumat' pro vse eto.

  Press-konferenciya 30 oktyabrya.

  http://www.exploremars.org/jpl-briefing-30-october-2012-230-pm-edt-methane-on-mars

• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 30.10.2012 9:43, 2.5 KBait)

  FOTO NASA JPL Curiosity

  [img]http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00082/mhli/0082MH0096001000E1_DXXX-br.jpg[/img]

  rover Curiosity on Sol 82 (2012-10-29 08:43:35 UTC) .

  [img]http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00082/mhli/0082MH0096001003E1_DXXX-br.jpg[/img]

  rover Curiosity on Sol 82 (2012-10-29 08:57:30 UTC)

  [img]http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00082/mhli/0082MH0090000000R0_DXXX-br.jpg[/img]

  rover Curiosity on Sol 82 (2012-10-29 11:14:48 UTC) .

  FOTO s bol'shim uvelicheniem.

  http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00082/mhli/0082MH0096001002E1_DXXX.jpg

  http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00082/mhli/0082MH0090000000R0_DXXX.jpg

  http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00082/mhli/0082MH0096001004E1_DXXX.jpg

  http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00082/mhli/0082MH0096001003E1_DXXX.jpg

   Sled, ostavlennyi na dyune, zarastaet na meste, po analogii zarastaniya shrama (obrazovanie orogovevshei korochki) a ne vyravnivanie s vynosom peska, v etom sluchae obyazatel'nogo sleda iz zanesenyh pyl'yu sharikov v kakuyu-libo storonu. To est' na peske net pylevogo ili peschanogo sleda v kakom libo napravlenii, k tomu zhe vmyatina-rana ubyvaet po glubine (vyravnivaetsya-zarastaet), dlya chego neobhodim pritok k dannomu mestu dopolnitel'nogo veshestva (pyli i peska) po telu dyuny. Sledovatel'no rech' idet o mestnom zarastanii rany, a ne vyduvanii ili zanesenie vmyatiny peskom prinesennym vetrom so storony.

  Arhiv NASA

  http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/

• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 31.10.2012 11:45, 4.8 KBait)

  FOTO NASA JPL

   

  [img]http://cs317716.userapi.com/v317716574/90a3/n5c2gA12VtA.jpg[/img]

  [img]http://cs6270.userapi.com/u14035574/docs/...0d33...9d4c/Untitled-2.gif[/img]

  http://vk.com/curiosity_live

  Sait issledovatelei Astrogeologii, u nih mozhno uvidet' lyubopytnye foto NASA (cvetnye snimki delayut na Zemle i NASA publikuet foto po raznym adresam).

  Arhiv NASA

  http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/

  http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/images/index.html

  http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/

  Zainteresovavshii NASA oblomok tehnologicheski anomal'nogo kamnya, issleduetsya dostatochno ubeditel'no. Kak esli by udarami lazera ogolyayutsya tokoprovodyashie shiny (postoyannaya tolshina stenok i po dline: nalichie pravil'noi formy tehnologicheski sootvetstvuyushego naznacheniya), sami kleima mogli byt' poteryany ranee, sohranilos' tol'ko levaya s shestigrannoi golovkoi (pokazannaya ranee). Vazhnost' nahodki podcherkivaet dva obstoyatel'stva: zatrachennoe vremya i energiya i privlechennoe oborudovanie. Vse govorit o neobychnosti issleduemogo predmeta.

  Vysokokachestvennoe foto 0082 kamen', lezhashii poverh sharikov, poyavlenie etogo kamnya ne ponyatno.

  500 kb http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/images/pia16236_MAHLI_Sol82_Et-Then-br2.jpg

   

  V vide versii: ne isklyucheno i vmeshatel'stvo NASA.

   

  FOTO NASA JPL Curiosity

   [img]http://cs315329.userapi.com/v315329574/2be9/_g4Feffk_nQ.jpg[/img]

  [img]http://cs315329.userapi.com/v315329574/2bf2/qFfbJF1Mdm4.jpg[/img]

  Opport'yuniti

  [img]http://www.yugzone.ru/articles/mars/index.files/image081.jpg[/img]

  4 mb http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardawho/4007596839/sizes/o/

  Stat'ya 9 chast' http://www.yugzone.ru/articles/mars/

  Arhiv NASA

  http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/opportunity_p2024.html

  http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/opportunity_p2031.html

  http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/opportunity.html

  http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/multimedia/index.html

  http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/

  Ranee Opport'yuniti uzhe vstrechal kamni ili po nashei versii marsianskie zhivotnye s vyrezannymi v ih korpuse otverstiyami, otverstie primerno odinakovogo razmera i formy v udobnom dlya ispol'zovaniya polozhenii. Kak esli by otverstie bylo sdelano s cel'yu, naprimer issledovaniya vnutrennostei ili ih izvlecheniya.

• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 31.10.2012 23:44, 5.4 KBait)

  FOTO NASA JPL Curiosity 

  24 oktyabrya

  [img]http://astrobob.areavoices.com/files/2012/10/Mars-Curiosity-Oct-24-mastcam-1024x701.jpg[/img]

  http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00077/mcam/0077MR0575017000E1_DXXX.jpg

  http://astrobob.areavoices.com/2012/10/28/paparazzi-curiosity-snaps-photos-of-martian-rock-stars/

  Eto ne skul'pturnye gruppy a real'nye marsianskie zhivotnye, po-vidimomu, podobie nashego afrikanskogo praida l'vov.

  [img]http://www.nova-lan.ru/uploads/news/2011/November/47/f7def330a188332e8fbd18316840f631.jpg[/img]

   [http://www.nova-lan.ru/index.php?name=news&op=view&id=55702

  [img]http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/uploads/post-60-1351088910_thumb.jpg[/img]

   

  http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=28691

  http://www.astronomy.ru/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=52854.0;attach=451001;image

  http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=28694

  http://www.astronomy.ru/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=52854.0;attach=451000;image

  Forum

  http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=7495&st=285

   

  A eto vovse ne kuski lavy, a te zhe marsianskie lyudi, soglasimsya skul'pturnaya gruppa ochen' pohozha na babushku s vnukom. Po-vidimomu, skorost' metabolizma tam ili u nih v 100 ili 100000 raz medlennee. My vidim zamedlennoe kino, no eto real'naya forma zhizni.

  Skoree vsego za valom raboty svyazannoe s issledovaniem mineral'nogo i dr. sostavlyayushih rutinnuyu chast' raboty gruppa issledovatelei NASA ne vidit ochevidnoi versii.

  Zaidite na forum

  http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=7495&st=285

  i posmotrite sami ne predubezhdennym vzglyadom, na kuski lavy vse oni pohozhi na dikovinnyh zhivotnyh, skoree vsego ili dazhe bolee chem - oni imi i yavlyayutsya. Tol'ko s chrezvychaino medlennym metabolizmom. Imenno poetomu do sih por ne bylo otmecheno dvizhenii v yavnoi forme, hotya sledov, otpechatkov - ochen' mnogo. Skoree vsego poslednie foto s orogovevshimi sledami eto i est' sledy, ostavlennye primerno pol goda ili god nazad.

• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 4.11.2012 7:14, 1.1 KBait)

  Vozmozhno pravil'no v dannoi situacii, prokopat' transheyu. Delaya foto i strelyaya lazerom kazhdoe mesto vzyatoi kovshom do vzyatiya proby i mesto vysypaniya peska.

  Vo-pervyh, skai-kran nanes usherb ne soizmerimo bol'shii (unichtozhiv sotni kamnei i eto tol'ko nachalo), poskol'ku i dalee v slozhivsheisya situacii -  nikto ne sobiraetsya prekrashat': davit', strelyat', vzryvat'. Sledovatel'no, predusmotritel'no i posledovatel'no sdelat' vse to zhe samoe, no nauchno - srezaya sloi po etapam, provedya polnoe issledovanie sostoyaniya peska na vsyu glubinu dyuny. Razrezav transheei dyunu popolam. Ozhidaetsya, chto vnutri dyuny est' central'noe telo s otlichnymi svoistvami peska: po cvetu, him. sostavu i strukture. Primerno 100-200 kovshei v techenii 2-3 sutok, eto luchshe chem prosto zhdat' ili peremeshat'sya, ryadom tot zhe pesok i te zhe kamni. Vozmozhna avariinaya situaciya ili nechto analogichnoe upavshemu kembriku, no opyt est' opyt. Lyuboi osoznano poluchennyi rezul'tat polozhitel'nyi.

  - Chto drugoe v dannoi situacii?

• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 10.11.2012 18:50, 3.7 KBait)

  FOTO NASA JPL Opport'yuniti

   

  [img]http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r91/wilga_photo/Oppy/ESP_024015_1775_RED--secular_city.png[/img]

  Forum NASA, obsuzhdenie belogo pryamougol'nika.

  http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=7081&st=75&p=179193&#entry179193

  Na forume NASA obsuzhdali etu fotografiyu 11 oktyabrya 2011

  http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=25681

  Togda zhe oni opredelyali blizhaishuyu poziciyu Opport'yuniti k pryamougol'niku den' 2742, v etot den' kak vidno po trase dvizheniya Opport'yuniti maksimal'no priblizilsya k krayu grebnya, sdelav kryuk vpravo. Vse eto imi obsuzhdalos' god nazad.

  [img]http://cs316225.userapi.com/v316225574/4132/B3RhJ8dJceo.jpg[/img]

  [img]http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/navcam/2012-10-16/1N403657911EFFBWEGP0142L0M1.JPG[/img]

   

  Fragment poverhnosti s analogichnymi osvetlennymi uchastkami poverhnosti (2012 10 16) privedennyi pri obsuzhdenii etogo voprosa segodnya.

  http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?s=88ba9b2d6604cb1aed54760ece79ea0d&showtopic=7411&st=570

  Primenyaemye oboznacheniya: udivitel'nye pryamougol'nye struktury, chto konechno sootvetstvuet izobrazhennomu na foto.

  [img]http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=25682[/img]

  izobrazhennomu na foto.

  Foto belogo pryamougol'nika

  Oct 12 2011, 12:19 AM

  http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=25682

  [img]http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=28882[/img]

   

  http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=28882

   

  Uchastok poverhnosti sootvetstvuyushii polozheniyu belomu pryamougol'niku.

  Nikto ne vidit, chego-libo neobychnogo v etom meste kak-libo sootvetstvuyushii vydelennomu polozheniyu belyh linii, ili oni ne vidyat ob'ektov ili predmetov sostavlyayushih belye linii - predpolozhu imenno poetomu NASA ne stalo preryvat' dvizhenie v zaplanirovannom vide, spusk pologii i esli ne boyat'sya provalit'sya i zastryat' to nichego slozhnogo, no zachem? Rentgena net, lopaty net, geofizicheskie pribory v vide geofizicheskoi kosy otsutstvuyut. Togda dlya chego? Rezonno, vozrazit' osobenno nechego.

  http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=7081&st=75&p=179193&#entry179193

  http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?s=88ba9b2d6604cb1aed54760ece79ea0d&showtopic=7411&st=570

  Eshe raz privozhu adres na dve stranichki obsuzhdeniya belogo pryamougol'nika god nazad i segodnya.

  Esli foto ne otkrl. prosmotrite vruchnuyu ne otkryvsheesya ssylki, eto foto mesta polozheniya "pryamougol'nika".

• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 11.11.2012 21:10, 4.0 KBait)

  FOTO NASA JPL Curiosity 0066

   

  [img]http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00066/mcam/0066ML0296031000E1_DXXX-br.jpg[/img]

  200 kb http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00066/mcam/0066ML0296031000E1_DXXX.jpg

  Vse foto sol 0066

   

   [img]http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00072/mcam/0072MR0557000000E1_DXXX-br.jpg[/img]

  200 kb http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00072/mcam/0072MR0557000000E1_DXXX.jpg

  [img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8049/8126445323_b4d92eed28_z.jpg[/img]

   

  Sprava po centru obrezannaya trubka.

  http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardawho/8126445323/sizes/l/in/photostream/

  http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardawho/page6/

  http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/?s=66&camera=MAST%5F

   

  Oblomok odin iz etoi zhe gruppy oblomkov.

  [img]http://cs6270.userapi.com/u14035574/docs/.../Untitled-2.gif[/img]

  [img]http://cs317716.userapi.com/v317716574/90a3/n5c2gA12VtA.jpg[/img]

   

  Obshaya panorama so vsemi kamnyami

  [img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8326/8097894092_994c5dcd9a_c.jpg[/img]

  Arhiv Flaiker

  http://www.flickr.com/photos/lunexit/8097894092/sizes/c/in/photostream/

  Gruppa ploskih kamnei v konce dyuny, tak vot vopros: razve pravee serediny v teni - ne dva sterzhnya ili dve trubki? prichem odinakovoi dliny i diametra? Mnogo drugih voprosov po povodu elektricheskih shin i yavnyh priznakov razbitogo korpusa tehnologicheskogo izdeliya.

  Luchshe esli otkryt' foto 200 kb verhnyaya ssylka pod fotografii oblomka, da i voobshe vnimatel'nee rassmotret' vse foto vysokoi chetkosti.

• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 12.11.2012 9:23, 2.3 KBait) [img]http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00095/mhli/0095MH0132001000E1_DXXX-br.jpg[/img]
  [img]http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00095/mhli/0095MH0131003000C0_DXXX-br.jpg[/img]
  http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/?s=95
  Volokom styagivaetsya grunt s lotka? Vetrovaya eroziya dolzhna byla vnachale rasseyat' komochki v pyl', a sleda pyli dazhe net. I na kraya lotka vblizi kraya styagivayushie sily vyshe, chto soglasuetsya s obshim ob'yasneniem mehanicheskogo prityazheniya.
  [img]http://www.sciteclibrary.ru/ris-stat/1844/image011.jpg[/img]
  http://www.sciteclibrary.ru/rus/catalog/pages/8540.html
  http://www.sciteclibrary.ru/rus/catalog/pages/8616.html
  Mnogochislennye primery effekta mehanicheskogo prityazheniya.
  [img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8488/8176133079_d9245a7a5e_c.jpg[/img]
  [img]http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00093/mcam/0093MR0544001000E1_DXXX-br.jpg[/img]
  http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=28902
  http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/?s=93&camera=MAST%5F
  [img]http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00086/mhli/0086MH0116001000C0_DXXX-br.jpg[/img]
  http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00086/mhli/0086MH0116001000C0_DXXX.jpg
  Srezannaya poverhnost' pokazyvaet priznaki zhestko svyazannogo sostoyaniya peska, dazhe v principe ne sposobnogo k vetrovoi erozii v dannyh usloviyah.
  http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/?s=86&camera=MAHLI
  http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/?s=77
  http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/?s=79
  http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/?s=88
  http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/?s=90
  http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/?s=93
  http://www.flickr.com/photos/lunexit/8176133079/sizes/o/in/photostream/
  http://www.flickr.com/photos/lunexit/
  (vydeleny dni s osobo interesnoi vizual'noi programmoi)
  Shariki-komochki obrazuyutsya tol'ko na peske vnutri transhei i vblizi, i chem dalee pesok otnesen ot rany ili vyrytogo uchastka, tem menee organizovan v komochki. Tendenciya proslezhivaetsya so vremenem, imeya v vidu chto te nemnogie komochki chto perenesli na rasstoyanie oni raspalis' razlozhilis'? Novye ponyatno vdali ot rany ne obrazuyutsya, a starye uzhe sformirovannye, cherez kakoe vremya raspalis'?
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 28.11.2012 0:17, 1.5 KBait) FOTO NASA JPL Curiosity col 0109[img]http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00109/mcam/0109MR0684015000E1_DXXX-br.jpg[/img]200 kb http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00109/mcam/0109MR0684015000E1_DXXX.jpg [img]http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00109/mcam/0109MR0684014000E1_DXXX-br.jpg[/img]200kb http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00109/mcam/0109MR0684014000E1_DXXX.jpg [img]http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00109/mcam/0109MR0684010000E1_DXXX-br.jpg[/img]200kb http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00109/mcam/0109MR0684010000E1_DXXX.jpg [img]http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00109/mcam/0109MR0684009000E1_DXXX-br.jpg[/img]200kb http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00109/mcam/0109MR0684009000E1_DXXX.jpg Vse foto sol 109http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/?s=109&camera=MAST%5Fhttp://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/ A ved' tak mozhet vyglyadet' ih transportnoe sredstvo... dlya vyezda na prirodu, vnutri ta zhe pyl' i pesok, no lyubopytnaya. Vneshne vse ochen' pohozhe na nakatannuyu dorogu.I ranee uzhe byli tochno takie zhe ili podobnye predmety na foto.NASA's Mars rover Curiosity on Sol 60 (2012-10-06 17:11:50 UTC) . [img]http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00060/mcam/0060MR0272002000E1_DXXX-br.jpg[/img]200 kb http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00060/mcam/0060MR0272002000E1_DXXX.jpg http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/?s=60&camera=MAST%5F Zhdem 7 dekabrya, chto interesno eshe nam pokazhut?
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 7.09.2016 4:54, 579 Bait) Annotaciya k chetvertoi chasti stat'i 30 fotografii (imeet smysl posmotret'): ChTO ZhE V DE'STVITEL'NOSTI FOTOGRAFIROVALI ASTRONAVTY NASA, NAHODYaS' NA LUNE?. http://sfu.su/showpost.php?p=38606&postcount=34 Polnaya versiya stat'i 169 foto, - razrezy kamnei pokazyvayut kozhu, na poverhnosti net mikrokraterov, net sledov mikrometeoritov i pr. Chast' 4. Chto fotografirovali astronavty NASA, nahodyas' na Lune? http://sfu.su/showthread.php?t=4413 Veb-stranica v odnom faile, polnaya versiya stat'i. http://www.koob.ru/bykovsky/life_on_the_moon_4 Dve ssylki na polnuyu versiyu stat'i.
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 8.09.2016 8:59, 612 Bait) Annotaciya k chetvertoi chasti stat'i 30 fotografii (imeet smysl posmotret'): ChTO ZhE V DE'STVITEL'NOSTI FOTOGRAFIROVALI ASTRONAVTY NASA, NAHODYaS' NA LUNE?. [url]http://sfu.su/showpost.php?p=38606&postcount=34[/url] Polnaya versiya stat'i 169 foto, - razrezy kamnei pokazyvayut kozhu, na poverhnosti net mikrokraterov, net sledov mikrometeoritov i pr. Chast' 4. Chto fotografirovali astronavty NASA, nahodyas' na Lune? [url]http://sfu.su/showthread.php?t=4413[/url] Veb-stranica v odnom faile, polnaya versiya stat'i. [url]http://www.koob.ru/bykovsky/life_on_the_moon_4[/url] Dve ssylki na polnuyu versiyu stat'i.
• Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. A. Bykovskii, 25.09.2016 17:52, 520 Bait, otvetov: 1) Chast' 10 Otkrytoe pis'mo kollektivu NASA. Galereya fotografii. Analiz nalichiya priznakov zhizni na Marse. Triumf! Priznaki nalichiya nebelkovoi formy zhizni na Marse. http://sfu.su/showthread.php?p=38678#post38678 [url=http://savepic.su/7423852.htm][img]http://savepic.su/7423852m.jpg[/img][/url] http://mars.nasa.gov/mer/gallery/all/opportunity_p4445.html http://www.midnightplanets.com/web/MERB/sol/04445.html http://flickrhivemind.net/Tags/mars,opportunity/Recent (chto-to vrode analiza, chernovik dlya obsuzhdeniya)
• Re[2]: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).   (O. B. Petrov, 27.09.2016 19:10, 145 Bait) Shokiruyushaya vetka