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Soobshenie |
O. A. Bykovskii
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Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).
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9.11.2007 19:18 |
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Bolee chem strannye kamni (Spirit, Opportunity).
Vse pred'yavlyaemye fotografii i panoramy tochno sootvetstvuyut originalam NASA (adres stat'i http://tonos.ru/
articles/marslife).
Strannost' fotografii zaklyuchaetsya... ...
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| Naverh |
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O. A. Bykovskii
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Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).
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1.10.2008 7:45 |
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Dyuny.
Roza vetrov i vse takoe. A u menya nemnogo est' somneniya, dyuny pohozhi na kakieto uzh sovsem samostoyatel'nye
obrazovaniya. Hotya mozhno rassuzhdat' tak a mozhno i edak. Dlya prostogo odnoznachnogo ob'ya'sneniya, mnogo
strannogo, Vy ne nahodite?
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| Naverh |
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O. A. Bykovskii
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Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).
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1.10.2008 17:44 |
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Roza vetrov.
Soglasimsya chto dazhe dlya Zemli gde peschanye buri real'nost' dannaya fotografiya smotrelas' by kak-to
neobychno, poskol'ku sprava net istochnika teh barhanov kotorye est' sleva. Esli zhe predstavit' chto na
Marse dyuny kondensiruyutsya iz uglekisloty i skaly ih estestvennoe mesto rozhdeniya to eto obstoyatel'stvo tak
zhe interesno kak i vse obsuzhdaemoe.
1.Vse dyuny kotorye issledovalis' Spiritom i Opport'yuniti soderzhali neskol'ko frakcii v tom chisle
krupnye frakcii peska.
2.Atmosfera Marsa 0.6% plotnosti zemnoi atmosfery i vryad li veter pri dannoi plotnosti sposoben
podnyat' peschinki vysoko dlya perenosa cherez holmy i skaly. A pesok dlya barhanov zhiznenno neobhodim tak
podvetrennyi krutoi sklon obrazuetsya za schet stekaniya peska.
3.Da i vyglyadyat dyuny kak i vezde i eto nesmotrya na predpolagaemuyu separaciyu peska pri proseivanii
cherez vysotu! a vot skaly naoborot kakie-to neobychnye i esli by menya lichno kto to sprosil kak dolzhny
vyglyadet' marsianskii zavody po pererabotke dyun ya by pal'cem pokazal na eti skaly.
4.Na kryshe skal est' nechto napominayushee osadki to est' to chto mozhet obrazovat'sya pri isparenii
ili pererabotke dyun no net dazhe priznakov melkoi ryabi kochuyushego peska eto v sluchae esli uporstvovat' i
otstaivat' strannuyu gipotezu dvizheniya peska sprava na levo pri ego polnom otsutstvii.
5.A vot v sluchae nashei versii zatyagivaniya vse ochen' dazhe pohozhe (nekotoraya ekstravagantnost' idei
konechno est' no chto eto menyaet v svyazi s uzhe skazannym i vozmozhno skazannym).
6.Tak vot po dannoi versii vse bolee menee uvyazyvaetsya. U stenki skal my vidim dolgo ili trudno
perevarivaemye othody, na kryshe i vokrug osela pyl'. Da i vneshne dyuny vyglyadyat skoree kak esli by ih
vytyanuli i estestvenno pri etom deformirovali a ne vyglyadyat formiruyushimisya iz struek peska stekayushego s
kryshi, poskol'ku ne v etom meste dolzhno bylo by byt' nachalo kazhdoi gryady (naverhu est' lozhbinki kotorye
postepenno prevratilis' by v ovragi, pesok zhe! abraziv!).
Soglasimsya obe versii dostatochno pohozhi i razlichayutsya v nyuansah. Obsudim? Kto chto vidit za i protiv.
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| Naverh |
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O. A. Bykovskii
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Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).
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5.10.2008 13:48 |
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Obratim vnimanie dyuny nahodyatsya tol'ko v odin sloi i imeyut odinakovuyu formu ne zavisimo ot osobennostei
rel'efa bud'-to na sklone v provale ili sredi kamnei, slozhnoe mnogosostavnoe napolnenie chto kraine
neestestvenno i dazhe nevozmozhno dlya obychnyh barhanov.
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_009138_2025.jpg [/img]
Podrobnee eto mozhno rassmotret' nizhe, ssylka na polnuyu versiyu panoramy 2mbaita.
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007055_2015_cut_c.jpg
Teper' rassmotrim evolyuciyu Sinei dyuny zapolnyayushei krater Viktoriya ot nachala do ee nyneshnego sostoyaniya.
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_006943_1655.jpg [/img]
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007466_1655.jpg [/img]
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_006572_1665.jpg [/img]
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_006975_2010.jpg [/img]
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007475_1785.jpg [/img]
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007098_1685.jpg [/img]
Vyskazhem sleduyushee predpolozhenie, sinie dyuny nahodyashiesya v kraterah v bol'shinstve sluchaev voznikayut iz-za
ob'edineniya zmeevidnyh dyun, srastayushihsya poperechnymi peremychkami.
No na dvuh nizhnih fotografiyah vidno chto proishodit ne tol'ko ob'edinenie sinei dyuny iz otdel'nyh
zmeevidnyh dyun no idet i obratnyi process migracii elementov dyuny v svobodnoe sostoyanie.
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_005885_1825.jpg [/img]
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_008758_1720.jpg [/img]
Na fotografii nizhe, po-vidimomu, process razmnozheniya.
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_009084_1745.jpg [/img]
Odnovremennoe sushestvovanie po perimetru central'nogo kratera takogo Endurans ili Viktoriya vorotnichka
iz bolee melkih kraterov s mini sinei dyunoi v kazhdom (sudya po cvetu) navodit na mysl' o dvoinom ili dazhe
mnozhestvennoi forme razmnozheniya kak ot semyan tak i pobegov.
Krater Viktoriya po perimetru sotni poltory melkih voronok, nekotorye sovsem svezhie. Opport'yuniti proehal
mimo dvuh takih sovershenno noven'kih voronok! Nu ne mogut tak chasto padat' meteority i tak pricel'no!
Imenno po perimetru na nekotorom udalenii. Togda kak na vnutrennem sklone vsego odin malen'kii krater.
[img] http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/6/image076.jpg [/img]
Krater Endurans vokrug melkie voronki. Meteority na peske? Bystro dolzhno zanesti.
[img] http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/6/image085.jpg [/img]
Dva obrazca malogo kratera-pobega pervyi u kratera Viktoriya sovsem noven'kii
[img]http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20080102a/Sol1162B_P2299_L257F_th418.jpg [/
img]
Staraya voronka, takih vokrug kratera Endurans nemalo
[img] http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/6/image046.jpg [/img]
Na nekotoryh fotografiyah mozhno uvidet' zastyvshie sobytiya iz zhizni nashei dyuny.
Naprimer, napadenie na sineyu dyunu marsianskogo raka (po-vidimomu neskol'kih osobei, priblizhayushihsya k
dyune pod poverhnost'yu).
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_006822_2060.jpg [/img]
Neponyatnye processy razdeleniya a vozmozhno gibeli
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007502_1495.jpg [/img]
Yavnye priznaki smerti. Vozmozhno i meteorit.
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007119_1700.jpg [/img]
Eshe neskol'ko fotografii razlichnoi zhivnosti (takaya zhe igra prirody kak nu zemnyh vidov: kroliki, ezhiki,
cherepahi).
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007229_1810.jpg [/img]
Shupal'ca resnichki i shupal'ca kanavki
http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/images/PSP/PSP_001440_1255/PSP_001440_1255_RED.browse.jpg
Imenno resnichki kak organy adsorbiruyushie pyl' i SO2 pri ih prinuditel'noi ventilyacii, a ne shupal'ca
os'minoga dlya mehanicheskogo zahvata i uderzhaniya.
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_008815_1660.jpg [/img]
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_008815_1660
Kanavki ulavlivayut osedayushuyu pyl' (vspomnim zapylennye SB Spirita!) zatem porciyami podnimayushimi pishu na
verh (na fotografii eto sleva vnizu). Gde naprotiv kazhdoi kanavki-shupal'ca uzhe nahoditsya ranee podnyataya
porciya, vozmozhno uzhe nasyshennaya SO2 i poluperevarennaya.
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007018_1255.jpg [/img]
Nemnogo v inom, drugom vide ne vse tozhe samoe, ne hvatatel'nye a pogloshayushie glotatel'nye organy.
Dyuny v glubokom kratere a sila vetra pri formirovanii formy ne igraet roli?? Ved' veter v glubokom
kratere zavedomo slabee.
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_007560_2450
Vnutri odnogo i togo zhe kratera raznonapravlennye dyuny
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_007558_1305
Sharovoe skoplenie dyun v smysle dvizhenie kak by k centru skopleniya. Kakim dolzhen byt' veter??
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_007547_2415
Dyuny v skopleniyah imeyut raznoobraznuyu formu i orientaciyu ne imeyushuyu analogii u zemnyh barhanov. Krome
etogo raznoobrazie form isklyuchaet vetrovuyu versiyu (vezde v odin sloi i odnotipnoi formy, krome etogo
vezde prisutstvuet molodnyak).
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_009075_1800_RED.thumb.jpg
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_003800_1325_RED.thumb.jpg
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007172_2570_RED.thumb.jpg
V pol'zu biogennoi versii dyun govorit harakter izmenenii nablyudaemyh s periodom vo vremeni
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007805_2505_cut.jpg
A takzhe ogromnoe raznoobrazie form organizacii veshestva prosto nemyslimoe dlya peschanyh ili pylevyh
barhanov.
Razmery dyun ot 50 do 500 metrov.
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007713_2570.jpg [/img]
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_005779_1775.jpg [/img]
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007199_2580.jpg [/img]
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_008847_2580.jpg [/img]
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_009159_2650.jpg [/img]
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_008208_2600.jpg [/img]
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_008485_2640.jpg [/img]
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_008398_2570.jpg [/img]
Nalichie molodnyaka (nebol'shih dyun soprovozhdayushih vzroslyh osobei raspolozhennyh neskol'ko obosoblenno
vsegda v odin sloi)
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_008754_2570.jpg [/img]
A takzhe sledy raspada i razlozheniya.
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_007219_2650.jpg [/img]
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_008318_2600.jpg [/img]
I mnozhestvo inyh form zhizni o kotoryh my pogovorim v sleduyushem vyhode nashego rasskaza.
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_009130_1755.jpg [/img]
[img] http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_008705_1520.jpg [/img]
Dlya teh kto imeet vozmozhnost' kachat' mnogo megabaitnye (300-1000) fotografii kotorye pri zhelanii legko
naiti na saite NASA http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/
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| Naverh |
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O. A. Bykovskii
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Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).
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7.10.2008 9:42 |
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Vnimanie eto interesno!
Po-vidimomu, na fotografii nichto inoe kak sledy razlozheniya ili sledy raspada marsianskoi dyuny (no ne kak
ne sledy smerchei).
[img]http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_005397_1270.jpg[/img]
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_005397_1270
Skoree vsego na fotografii my deistvitel'no vidim sledy vysohshei dyuny.
Vo-pervyh, forma pyaten pohozha na dyuny.
Vo-vtoryh, mezhdu temnymi polosami ne vidno kamnei. Sledovatel'no, chast' kazhdoi dyuny raspadaetsya na nekie
chernye polosy, a chast' vypala v osadok (pyl'), zasypavshei kamni.
[img]http://hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu/PDS/EXTRAS/RDR/PSP/ORB_005300_005399/PSP_005397_1270/
PSP_005397_1270_RED.thumb.jpg[/img]
Horosho prosmatrivaetsya shodstvo pyaten s uchetom vtorichnyh osobennostei dyuny, naprimer, u pyaten takzhe vidno
sil'no vystupayushuyu levuyu skulu (smerchi risuyut dyuny?).
- Sledovatel'no my vidim sledy pogibshego stada dyun?!
Sostav mozhet byt' konechno tol'ko SO2 plyus nebol'shoe kolichestvo pyli. V dal'neishem pyl' postepenno
razneset veter chast' poglotyat kamni. Razletitsya i pautina temnyh volokon.
http://hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu/PDS/EXTRAS/RDR/PSP/ORB_005300_005399/PSP_005397_1270/
PSP_005397_1270_RED.thumb.jpg
Foto iz ranee opublikovannoi stat'i
http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/image3078.jpg
http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/image3077.jpg
Chernye volokna ne mogut byt' ne chem inym kak ostatkami takih zhe raspavshihsya dyun chto i vyshe.
http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/image3073.jpg
http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/image3081.jpg
Kak vidno po ostavshimsya sledam dyuny razlichayutsya po sostavu, no predstavlyaetsya ne principial'no. Glavnym
sostavlyayushim prosto fizicheski dolzhna byt' uglekislota. Na Marse prosto bol'she nechemu.
Krome etogo dobavlyayu ssylku na ranee ne otkryvshuyusya panoramu.
Vysokokachestvennaya panorama 3.2Mbaita. Ves'ma sovetuyu posmotret'! Vblizi dyuny vyglyadyat kak zhivye yashericy
ili dinozavry!
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/wallpaper/2560/PSP_009138_2025.jpg
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| Naverh |
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O. A. Bykovskii
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Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).
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2.07.2009 23:47 |
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Prodolzhenie Otkrytogo pis'ma 9 chast'
http://www.7tem.ru/1.htm
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| Naverh |
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E. L. Romanyuk
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Re[2]: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).
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20.07.2009 7:27 |
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Po slovam inyh planet - "Na Marse est' zachatochnye formy zhizni, 200 planet imeyut zhizn'". 1998
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| Naverh |
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O. A. Bykovskii
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Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).
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10.03.2010 9:19 |
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Est' novaya informaciya. Peremeshenie grebnei marsianskih dyun. Oni dvigayutsya i bystro!
http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA12860.jpg
http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/targetFamily/Mars?start=0
Fotografii snyaty 30 iyunya i 14 oktyabrya 2009g.
Uchityvaya otsutstvie sil'nogo vetra skorost' peremesheniya, chrezvychaino vysoka, poryadka dva metra za 70dnei!
Eto oficial'no, no zritel'no po fotografiyam otdel'nye chasti dyun smestilis' na 3-5 metrov. Navernyaka eto ne
rekord - raznovidnostei dyun na Marse mnozhestvo, da i krome dyun na Marse mnogo drugih neobychnyh form
organizacii veshestva.
Chto kasaetsya peremesheniya grebnei, vo-pervyh, dyuny pokryty zhestkoi korochkoi iz melkih sharikov i komochkov
svyazannogo peska i takoe sostoyanie predmeta ne pozvolyaet svobodno peremeshat'sya posredstvom perenosa
vetrom. Togda kak vse izuchennye dyuny imeyut imenno takuyu poverhnost', poetomu nablyudaemoe peremeshenie
grebnei ne mozhet byt' perenosom peska nahodyashegosya v svobodnom sostoyanii i nanesennogo na poverhnost'
zastyvshih dyun.
http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/7/image020.jpg
http://tonos.ru/images/articles/mars/7/image021.jpg
Arhiv NASA http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20040318a.html
Grebni predstavlyayut soboi nechto organichnoe soedinennoe so vsei massoi dyun: v kotorom grebni - odno celoe i
nahodyatsya v tom zhe sostoyanii chto i ostal'naya dyuna. Otsyuda peremeshenie grebnei eto dinamika samoi dyuny
kak organizovannogo (zhivogo!) veshestva
Tak zhe obratim vnimanie, nesmotrya na to chto dyuny spolzayut v krater (pesok obrushivaetsya?) na poverhnosti
dyun net treshin, net razryvov otdelivshihsya plastov kak eto bylo by v dannom sluchae na Zemle. Vse eto vidno
ne tol'ko s orbity, no sfotografirovano vblizi Opport'yuniti na sklonah kratera Viktoriya.
I eto vse pri skorosti vetra 2-4 m/s, poskol'ku v techenii iyulya oktyabrya 2009 goda pylevyh bur' ne bylo, a
v drugoe vremya veter na Marse kraine slabyi i eto pri 0.6% plotnosti zemnoi atmosfery.
Neestestvenno bol'shaya dlya uslovii Marsa dinamika dyun, ih ogromnoe raznoobrazie i mnogie drugie osobennosti
vpolne svidetel'stvuyut o nalichie processov svyazannyh so slozhnoi vnutrennei organizaciei.
Fotografii vysyhayushih dyun ili chto v dannom sluchae bolee pravil'no process razlozheniya.
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2008/details/PSP_005397_1270.jpg
http://hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu/PDS/EXTRAS/RDR/PSP/ORB_005300_005399/PSP_005397_1270/
PSP_005397_1270_RED.thumb.jpg
Neobhodimo sravnit' i eti fotografii do i posle. Esli temnye polosy za eto vremya smestilis', to eto
volokna, niti karkasa. Hotya raspolzanie volokon brosaetsya v glaza i po etoi fotografii. Tak zhe kak
otsutstvie prisypannyh kamnei vblizi samogo kraya dyuny i voobshe otsutstvie dazhe priznakov teh samyh bystro
dvizhushihsya grebnei dyun, ved' obychnyi pesok pri razduvanii dolzhen sozdat' mikrodyuny i otdel'nye grebni, on
ne mozhet uletuchit'sya bessledno vse eto govorit o neprichastnosti obychnogo peska, a banal'nom dlya uslovii
Marsa processe razlozheniya uglekislotnogo napolnitelya.
Starye ssylki: Mars i Luna
http://tonos.ru/articles/marslife
http://www.sciteclibrary.ru/rus/catalog/pages/9717.html
http://www.sciteclibrary.ru/rus/catalog/pages/10005.html
Kremnievaya forma zhizni na Zemle
http://www.bolesmir.ru/index.php?content=text&name=o72
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| Naverh |
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T. V. Mishurova
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Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).
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11.03.2010 10:09 |
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Vse eto bezuslovno interesno.
Shariki, peremeshayushiesya dyuny.
Stol'ko eshe neizvedannogo!
No tol'ko po fotografiyam trudno delat' pravil'nye vyvody...
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| Naverh |
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O. A. Bykovskii
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Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).
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25.05.2010 17:54 |
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Ssylka na Chast'-9, izmenena i dopolnena + 30 fotografii (v tom chisle provalivshiisya za zimu Feniks)
http://www.yugzone.ru/articles/mars/
http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA13158.jpg
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| Naverh |
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O. A. Bykovskii
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Re: Strannye kamni Marsa (Spirit, Opportunity).
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20.08.2010 15:33 |
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Na saite "Medvedev.DA", novaya tema mozhet byt' organizovanna posle prosmotra moderatorom.
Mesyac nazad sbrosil neskol'ko fotografii, pozavchera povtoril, dobaviv eshe neskol'ko...
19 avgusta (v den' povtora) tema nakonec poyavilas'.
Uf, kontakt sostoyalsya! Marsiane my vas zametili :)
esi chto zdes'
http://www.medvedev-da.ru/forum.php?PAGE_NAME=read&FID=15&TID=3558
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| Naverh |
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