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Re: Chernaya dyra
19.09.2011 11:38 | A.P. Vasi
1 Nekotorye sverhmassivnye chernye dyry vybrasyvayut
kolossal'nye potoki raskalennoi plazmy i lish' teper'
stanovitsya yasnym, pochemu imenno oni.
2 V aktivnom centre galaktiki M82, kak i polozheno, nahoditsya sverhmassivnaya
chernaya dyra. No ryadom s nei obnaruzheno i para dyr pomen'she
3 Oni prosto predpolozhili, chto v centre kazhdoi iz galaktik imeetsya
po sverhmassivnoi chernoi dyre, i poschitali srednee kolichestvo i
velichinu.
Material iz Vikipedii
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/M87_jet.jpg/250px-M87_jet.jpg
Izobrazhenie, poluchennoe s pomosh'yu teleskopa Habbl: Aktivnaya galaktika M87. V yadre galaktiki, predpolozhitel'no, nahoditsya chernaya dyra. Na snimke vidna relyativistskaya struya dlinoi okolo 5 tysyach svetovyh let
Relyativistskie strui
, dzhety (angl. jet) strui plazmy, vyryvayushiesya iz centrov (yader) takih astronomicheskih ob'ektov, kak aktivnye galaktiki, kvazary i radiogalaktiki.
Obychno u ob'ekta nablyudaetsya dve strui, napravlennye v protivopolozhnye storony.
Na nastoyashii moment relyativistskie strui ostayutsya nedostatochno izuchennym yavleniem. Prichinoi poyavleniya takih strui chasto nazyvayut vzaimodeistvie magnitnyh polei s akkrecionnym diskom vokrug chernoi dyry ili neitronnoi zvezdy.
V stat'e na Elementah metodom chislennogo modelirovaniya pokazano, chto pri sliyanii dvuh neitronnyh zvezd obrazuetsya chernaya dyra, magnitnoe pole kotoroi vytyanuto vdol' osi. Eto navodit na mysli, chto etot zhe process mozhet formirovat' i relyativistskie strui. Tem ne menee, v stat'e govoritsya, chto predlozhennaya avtorami nauchnoi raboty matematicheskaya model' okazalas' ochen' slozhna, a vychislitel'nye vozmozhnosti sovremennyh komp'yuterov okazalis' nedostatochny, chtoby s dolzhnoi tochnost'yu provesti vse neobhodimye raschety i ubeditel'no dokazat' formirovanie strui.
V drugoi stat'e na Elementah provodyatsya paralleli mezhdu processami v chernyh dyrah i boze-einshteinovskom kondensate. Otmechaetsya chto kondensat mozhet kollapsirovat' (slipat'sya) i pri posleduyushem ego raspade tozhe mogut voznikat' uzkonapravlennye vybrosy.
Dal'neishee izuchenie relyativistskih strui
Pri samyh pervyh popytkah ob'yasneniya sverhsvetovogo dvizheniya s pomosh'yu relyativistskogo napravlennogo potoka chastic vozniklo oslozhnenie: udivitel'no bol'shaya dolya kompaktnyh istochnikov pokazyvala sverhsvetovoe dvizhenie, v to vremya kak na osnovanii prostyh geometricheskih dovodov poluchalos', chto tol'ko neskol'ko procentov takih ob'ektov dolzhno byt' sluchaino orientirovano pochti vdol' linii zreniya. Prisutstvie simmetrichnyh protyazhennyh radiokomponent predpolagalo, chto oni obespechivalis' energiei ot central'nogo istochnika dvuh simmetrichnyh luchei. No trudno sravnit' svetimost' priblizhayusheisya i udalyayusheisya (ili dazhe stacionarnoi) komponent. Eto ochevidnoe razlichie obychno obsuzhdaetsya v kontekste modeli s dvoinym istecheniem [4], kogda izluchenie iz yadra rassmatrivaetsya kak stacionarnaya tochka, gde priblizhayushiisya relyativistskii potok stanovitsya neprozrachnym. Sverhsvetovoe dvizhenie nablyudaetsya mezhdu etoi stacionarnoi tochkoi v sople i dvizhushimisya volnovymi frontami ili drugimi neodnorodnostyami v vyhodyashem relyativistskom potoke.......
.....Material iz Vikipedii
Gámma-izluchénie (gamma-luchi, γ-luchi)
vid elektromagnitnogo izlucheniya s chrezvychaino maloi dlinoi volny
< 5×10−3 nm i, vsledstvie etogo, yarko vyrazhennymi korpuskulyarnymi
i slabo vyrazhennymi volnovymi svoistvami.
Gamma-kvantami yavlyayutsya fotony s vysokoi energiei. Obychno schitaetsya,
chto energii kvantov gamma-izlucheniya prevyshayut 105 eV, hotya rezkaya granica
mezhdu gamma- i rentgenovskim izlucheniem ne opredelena. Na shkale
elektromagnitnyh voln gamma-izluchenie granichit s rentgenovskim izlucheniem,
zanimaya diapazon bolee vysokih chastot i energii. V oblasti 1-100 keV
gamma-izluchenie i rentgenovskoe izluchenie razlichayutsya tol'ko po istochniku:
esli kvant izluchaetsya v yadernom perehode, to ego prinyato otnosit' k
gamma-izlucheniyu; esli pri vzaimodeistviyah elektronov ili pri perehodah
v atomnoi elektronnoi obolochke k rentgenovskomu izlucheniyu. Ochevidno,
fizicheski kvanty elektromagnitnogo izlucheniya s odinakovoi energiei ne
otlichayutsya, poetomu takoe razdelenie uslovno.
Gamma-izluchenie ispuskaetsya pri perehodah mezhdu vozbuzhdennymi
sostoyaniyami atomnyh yader (sm. Izomernyi perehod, energii takih
gamma-kvantov lezhat v diapazone ot ~1 keV do desyatkov MeV),
pri yadernyh reakciyah (naprimer, pri annigilyacii elektrona i pozitrona,
raspade neitral'nogo piona i t.d.), a takzhe pri otklonenii energichnyh
zaryazhennyh chastic v magnitnyh i elektricheskih polyah (sm. Sinhrotronnoe izluchenie).....
Esli net poverhnosti ob kotoruyu proishodit tormozhenie.
Material iz Vikipedii
.....Rentgenovskie trubki
Rentgenovskie luchi voznikayut pri sil'nom uskorenii zaryazhennyh chastic
(tormoznoe izluchenie), libo pri vysokoenergeticheskih perehodah v elektronnyh
obolochkah atomov ili molekul. Oba effekta ispol'zuyutsya v rentgenovskih
trubkah. Osnovnymi konstruktivnymi elementami takih trubok yavlyayutsya
metallicheskie katod i anod (ranee nazyvavshiisya takzhe antikatodom).
V rentgenovskih trubkah elektrony, ispushennye katodom, uskoryayutsya
pod deistviem raznosti elektricheskih potencialov mezhdu anodom i katodom
(pri etom rentgenovskie luchi ne ispuskayutsya, tak kak uskorenie slishkom malo)
i udaryayutsya ob anod, gde proishodit ih rezkoe tormozhenie. Pri etom za schet
tormoznogo izlucheniya proishodit generaciya izlucheniya rentgenovskogo diapazona,
i odnovremenno vybivayutsya elektrony iz vnutrennih elektronnyh obolochek atomov
anoda. Pustye mesta v obolochkah zanimayutsya drugimi ....
To vstupaet v silu fraza -
V oblasti 1-100 keV
gamma-izluchenie i rentgenovskoe izluchenie razlichayutsya tol'ko po istochniku:
esli kvant izluchaetsya v yadernom perehode, to ego prinyato otnosit' k
gamma-izlucheniyu; esli pri vzaimodeistviyah elektronov ili pri perehodah
v atomnoi elektronnoi obolochke k rentgenovskomu izlucheniyu.
sledovatel'no pri otsutstvii udara o poverhnost' - otsutstvuet sama vozmozhnost'
vozniknoveniya rentgenovskogo izlucheniya, a esli izluchenie est' to ono mozhet
byt' tol'ko rezul'tatom izlucheniya v yadernom perehode. A eto uzhe chasticy vysokih energii.
avtorskoe izluchenie iz chernoi dyry -
.Material iz Vikipedii
Izluchénie Hókinga process ispuskaniya
raznoobraznyh elementarnyh chastic,
preimushestvenno fotonov, chernoi dyroi....
Vash metod obnaruzheniya Chernoi Dyry
-Vash tekst - 11.05.11 14:04
....Oni voobshe-to aktivno svetyat v rentgene (za schet akkrecii).
Tochnee, razumeetsya, ne oni sami, a akkreciruyushee veshestvo.
ChD tak i obnaruzhivayut. ....
Padaya na Chernuyu Dyru veshestvo ne
mozhet rezko tormozitsya ili rezko uskoryatsya,
a sledovatel'no - ne mozhet
byt' rentgenovskogo izlucheniya po etoi prichine.
V svyazi s tem chto dlya uskoreniya do skorosti sveta
pri kotorom vozmozhno izluchenie neobhodimo
ne bolee 10 sekund, a zvezda razmerom s
Solnce na takoi skorosti proletit cherez gorizont
sobytii maksimum za minutu.
Gorizont sobytii - eto skorost' sveta - esli
ob'ekt uletaet s etoi skorost'yu ot nablyudatelya, to
u nego vozniknet krasnoe smeshenie.
Esli by veshestvo dolgo padalo - godami na maloi skorosti
s uskoreniem to bylo by zametno izmenenie Z u padayushih
tel v chernuyu dyru so vremenem, no pri etom nevozmozhno
rentgenovskoe izluchenie - iz za slishkom medlennogo
uvelicheniya uskoreniya.
.... Material iz Vikipedii Rentgenovskie trubki
Rentgenovskie luchi voznikayut pri sil'nom uskorenii
zaryazhennyh chastic (tormoznoe izluchenie), libo pri
vysokoenergeticheskih perehodah v elektronnyh obolochkah
atomov ili molekul. Oba effekta ispol'zuyutsya v
rentgenovskih trubkah.....
A rentgenovskoe izluchenie est' - sledovatel'no
ego istochnikom mozhet byt' tol'ko rezul'tat yadernoi
reakcii.
....Material iz Vikipedii
Gámma-izluchénie
gamma-izluchenie i rentgenovskoe izluchenie razlichayutsya tol'ko po istochniku:
esli kvant izluchaetsya v yadernom perehode, to ego prinyato otnosit' k
gamma-izlucheniyu; esli pri vzaimodeistviyah elektronov ili pri perehodah
v atomnoi elektronnoi obolochke k rentgenovskomu izlucheniyu.....
A esli rezul'tat izlucheniya istochnik yadernoi reakcii -
i on dlitsya godami, - to eto neitronnaya zvezda.
http://www.popmech.ru/article/8971-nasledstvennyie-chernyie-dyiryi/page/3/
Uvazhaemyi
Dmitrii Mamontov
Moe - A gospodin A.M.ChEREPAShUK, v Vashei ssylke, ya tak ponyal reshil - zachem dobru propadat' - pust' izluchenie ( Izluchénie Hókinga) iz chernoi dyry budet eshe i preimushestvenno iz rentgenovskih chastic.
Vashe - Rentgenovskoe izluchenie ChD voznikaet pri akkrecii veshestva. Izluchenie Hokinga - drugoi process. Stranno, chto za 7 let "uvlecheniya astrofizikoi" Vy etogo ne ponyali.
Moe - S moei tochki zreniya - uvazhaemyi A.M.ChEREPAShUK imeet takoe zhe otnoshenie
k Chernym Dyram kak ya ili Vy.
My s Vami, i A.M.ChEREPAShUK mozhem tol'ko predpolagat' i vyskazyvat'
svoyu tochku zreniya, no obrashat' vnimaniya na podobnye vyskazyvaniya i brat'
ih na veru, ya ne vizhu smysla.
Drugoe delo avtor. Kak on skazal to - takie i Chernye Dyry.
Uvazhaemyi
Dmitrii Mamontov
Vot ya naprimer govoryu chto veshestvo padaet na chernuyu dyru,
i posle udara o poverhnost' s protivopolozhnoi storony chernoi dyry voznikaet rentgenovskoe i svetovoe izluchenie.
Drugoi schitaet chto izluchenie na podlete.
V binokl' ne vidno - odni predpolozheniya, i ih mozhet byt'
bol'she sotni naprimer - komu verit'?
Uvazhaemyi
Dmitrii Mamontov
Vy zatragivaete vopros interpretacii avtorskih
idei bez soglasiya s avtorom.
A esli desyatok drugih avtorov opublikuyut po 300 nauchnyh rabot, a avtor o Chernyh Dyrah govorit chto izluchenie v osnovnom iz fotonov - a vse drugie govoryat, chto
izluchenie iz rentgenovskih chastic, drugoi govorit iz radio izlucheniya, a tretii govorit iz gamma chastic - ya dolzhen slushat' isklyuchitel'no avtora Chernyh Dyr,
a ne teh kto interpretiruet, i tem bolee teh kto plevat' hotel na avtorskii variant chernyh dyr.
Nikto ne meshaet pridumat' svoi - rentgenovskie chernye dyry, - tak net ne hotyat, - tak na neudobnye voprosy otvechat' dolzhen budet avtor, a pri interpretacii avtora - pisaka naprimer stat'i s levymi ideyami v oblasti Chernyh Dyr, prikryvaetsya avtorstvom avtora
Chernyh Dyr, a sam so svoim bredom po otnosheniyu k avtorskomu izlozheniyu, kak-by i ne prichem.
Uvazhaemyi
Dmitrii Mamontov
..Material iz Vikipedii
Izluchénie Hókinga process ispuskaniya
raznoobraznyh elementarnyh chastic,
preimushestvenno fotonov, chernoi dyroi....
Vash tekst - 11.05.11 14:04
Oni voobshe-to aktivno svetyat v rentgene (za schet akkrecii). Tochnee, razumeetsya, ne oni sami, a akkreciruyushee veshestvo. ChD tak i obnaruzhivayut.
Vasha ssylka - tekst 11.05.11 20:36
....Kak otlichit' chernye dyry ot neitronnyh zvezd
Kak uzhe otmechalos', akkreciruyushaya chernaya dyra ne dolzhna proyavlyat' sebya kak rentgenovskii pul'sar. U nee mozhet nablyudat'sya lish' irregulyarnaya peremennost' rentgenovskogo izlucheniya s harakternymi vremenami
$$Delta tapprox frac{r_g}{c}approx10^{-3} div 10^{-4}~mbox{rm s.}$$
I deistvitel'no, v rentgenovskoi dvoinoi sisteme Lebed' H-1, soderzhashei chernuyu dyru s massoi okolo desyati solnechnyh, v sostoyanii, kogda rentgenovskaya svetimost' ponizhena, a rentgenovskii spektr zhestkii i stepennoi, nablyudaetsya bystraya irregulyarnaya peremennost' rentgenovskogo potoka na vremenah poryadka millisekundy. Nablyudeniya, vypolnennye s bortov sovremennyh rentgenovskih observatorii, takih, kak GINGA, MIR-KVANT, GRANAT, ASKA, pokazali, chto rentgenovskie spektry akkreciruyushih chernyh dyr sistematicheski bolee zhestkie, chem spektry akkreciruyushih neitronnyh zvezd, i prostirayutsya do energii v neskol'ko megaelektron-vol't.
Kak uzhe otmechalos', akkreciruyushaya neitronnaya zvezda mozhet proyavlyat' sebya kak rentgenovskii pul'sar. Odnako, esli neitronnaya zvezda obladaet slabym magnitnym polem (napryazhennost'yu menee 1010 Gs) ili esli ee os' vrasheniya neudachno orientirovana otnositel'no zemnogo nablyudatelya, pri akkrecii na takuyu neitronnuyu zvezdu mogut ne nablyudat'sya regulyarnye pul'sacii rentgenovskogo izlucheniya. Poetomu otsutstvie strogo periodicheskih pul'sacii rentgenovskogo izlucheniya - eto lish' neobhodimyi, no ne dostatochnyi priznak chernoi dyry. V to zhe vremya pri slabom magnitnom pole neitronnoi zvezdy i nesil'nom tempe akkrecii veshestva na ee poverhnosti mogut proishodit' termoyadernye vzryvy nakoplennogo veshestva, privodyashie k yavleniyu rentgenovskogo barstera I tipa - korotkim (dlitel'nost'yu poryadka 1-10 s) i moshnym vspyshkam intensivnosti rentgenovskogo izlucheniya, chto takzhe yavlyaetsya harakternym priznakom akkreciruyushei neitronnoi zvezdy, obladayushei tverdoi poverhnost'yu. Poskol'ku chernaya dyra ne obladaet tverdoi poverhnost'yu, akkreciya veshestva na nee ne dolzhna privodit' k fenomenu rentgenovskogo barstera I tipa. Razumeetsya, otsutstvie etogo fenomena takzhe yavlyaetsya lish' neobhodimym kriteriem nalichiya chernoi dyry. Takim obrazom, my mozhem sformulirovat' vazhneishie priznaki akkreciruyushei chernoi dyry: eto moshnoe rentgenovskoe izluchenie, bol'shaya massa (bolee treh solnechnyh), otsutstvie fenomenov rentgenovskogo pul'sara ili rentgenovskogo barstera I tipa. Pri etom vopros o nadezhnom opredelenii massy relyativistskogo ob'ekta v rentgenovskoi dvoinoi sisteme yavlyaetsya reshayushim pri identifikacii ego s chernoi dyroi....
Ya Vam prosto pokazyvayu proiivorechie u Vas i Vashei ssylke,
po otnosheniyu k napisannomu v Vikipedii o izluchenii iz Chernoi Dyry.
Uvazhaemyi
Leitenant Nemo
Chtoby proishodil razbros chastic rentgenovskogo
izlucheniya dlya etogo nado ili yadernoe gorenie zvezd,
chto k chernoi dyre ne primenimo, ili razgon materii
s posleduyushim udarom razognannoi chasticy o poverhnost'
kak eto proishodit v rentgen apparate.
....Material iz Vikipedii
Rentgenovskaya trubka
Rentgenovskie luchi voznikayut pri sil'nom uskorenii zaryazhennyh chastic (tormoznoe izluchenie), libo pri vysokoenergeticheskih perehodah v elektronnyh obolochkah atomov ili molekul. Oba effekta ispol'zuyutsya v rentgenovskih trubkah. Osnovnymi konstruktivnymi elementami takih trubok yavlyayutsya metallicheskie katod i anod (ranee nazyvavshiisya takzhe antikatodom). V rentgenovskih trubkah elektrony, ispushennye katodom, uskoryayutsya pod deistviem raznosti elektricheskih potencialov mezhdu anodom i katodom (pri etom rentgenovskie luchi ne ispuskayutsya, tak kak uskorenie slishkom malo) i udaryayutsya ob anod, gde proishodit ih rezkoe tormozhenie. .....
Iz chego vytekaet sleduyushee chto dlya vozniknoveniya izlucheniya radioaktivnyh chastic - neobhodim udar materii na skorosti odnoi desyatoi i bolee skorosti sveta.
Iz chego sleduet nevozmozhnoe uslovie dlya izlucheniya materii pri padenii v chernuyu dyru - tak kak dolzhna byt' poverhnost' dlya udara.
A poverhnosti to i net, veshestvo bez udara uhodit za gorizont sobytii, sledovatel'no i ne mozhet chernaya dyra izluchat' radioaktivnye chasticy.
A.M.Cherepashyuk v dannom sluchai ne prav.
kosmogon
...Schitaetsya, chto pri padenii na ChD veshestvo razgonyaetsya do skorostei, blizkih k s. V takom sluchae treniya bolee chem dostatochno dlya izlucheniya vysokih energii. ...
Ya ne mogu ponyat' pochemu rassmatrivaetsya otdel'no vzyataya chast' i ne argumentiruetsya a postuliruetsya.
U Vas - postulat.
Vy voz'mite naprimer shar razmerom v kilometr v diametre, i bros'te ego v Chernuyu Dyru.
Nu i razognali Vy chto ugodno v pustote, - eshe raz povtoryayu - v pustote proishodit padenie v chernuyu dyru - kakoe mozhet byt' trenie - prosto ne ob chto teret'sya.
Voz'mite naprimer zvezdu, ei tozhe ne ob chto teret'sya kogda vokrug pustota,
letit padaet i ugasaet, tem bolee chto mne lichno
uvazhaemyi Dmitrii Mamontov raschety privodil chto zvezda na odnoi desyatoi ili odnoi tretei skorosti sveta, mozhet prekrasno letat' na orbite vokrug Chernoi Dyry, i s nei vse normal'no.
Uvazhaemyi
Dmitrii Mamontov
,,,Chernaya dyra - oblast' prostranstva, v k-roi pole tyagoteniya nastol'ko sil'no, chto vtoraya kosmich. skorost' (parabolicheskaya skorost') dlya nahodyashihsya v etoi oblasti tel dolzhna byla by prevyshat' skorost' sveta, t.e. iz Ch.d. nichto ne mozhet vyletet' - ni izluchenie, ni chasticy, ibo v prirode nichto ne mozhet dvigat'sya so skorost'yu, bol'shei skorosti sveta. Granicu oblasti, za k-ruyu ne vyhodit svet, naz. gorizontom Ch.d.,,,
Eto bazovoe opredelenie, dazhe esli predpolozhit' chto v chernuyu dyru padayut zvezdy, pri etom izluchayut, i chto v centre galaktiki v chernyh dyrah massa bol'she chem massa vseh zvezd v etoi galaktike, a s momenta bol'shogo vzryva
togda mozhno poschitat' skol'ko milliardov zvezd v dyru v centre galaktiki
upalo. Tol'ko vot ne shoditsya s nablyudeniyami - zvezdy ne ischezayut v chernyh dyrah - etogo nikto ne nablyudal, - ne nablyudali i to kak zvezda prohodit cherez gorizont sobytii k chernoi dyre.
Uvazhaemyi
Dmitrii Mamontov
...Ishodya iz klassiki, na kotoruyu Vy opiraetes', ChD dlya zemlyanina dolzhny svetit' kak kvazary....
Vashe - Oni voobshe-to aktivno svetyat v rentgene (za schet akkrecii). Tochnee, razumeetsya, ne oni sami, a akkreciruyushee veshestvo. ChD tak i obnaruzhivayut.
Moe - u menya vopros - esli v rentgen diapazone izluchayut nizhe privedennye
neitronnye zvezdy - kotorye
...V sluchae, kogda peretekanie veshestva prodolzhaetsya i posle obrazovaniya N. z., ee massa mozhet so vremenem znachitel'no uvelichit'sya. Pri ${mathfrak M}_{N.z.}>{mathfrak M}_{maks}$ N. z. poteryaet ustoichivost' i v rezul'tate relyativistskogo gravitacionnogo kollapsa prevratitsya v chernuyu dyru. ...
To kak otlichit' neitronnuyu zvezdu ot chernoi dyry?
http://www.astronet.ru/db/msg/1188472
Neitronnye zvezdy
- gidrostaticheski ravnovesnye zvezdy, veshestvo k-ryh sostoit v osnovnom iz neitronov. Sushestvovanie N. z. bylo predskazano v 30-h gg. 20 v.,vskore posle otkrytiya neitrona. Odnako tol'ko v 1967 g. oni byli obnaruzheny v vide impul'snyh istochnikov radioizlucheniya - pul'sarov. Zatem bylo ustanovleno, chto N. z. proyavlyayut sebya takzhe kak rentgenovskie pul'sary (1971 g.) i vspyshechnye istochniki rentg. izlucheniya - barstery (1975 g.). Ne isklyucheno, chto na odnoi iz stadii sushestvovaniya N. z. yavl. istochnikami gamma-vspleskov. K 1984 g. otkryto ok. 400 N. z., iz nih ok. 20 v vide rentg. pul'sarov, ok. 40 v vide barsterov, a ostal'nye v vide obychnyh radiopul'sarov.
Druguyu vozmozhnost' poyavleniya N. z. predstavlyaet evolyuciya belyh karlikov v tesnyh dvoinyh zvezdnyh sistemah. Peretekanie veshestva so zvezdy-kompan'ona na belyi karlik postepenno uvelichivaet ego massu, i, kogda ona dostigaet ${mathfrak M}_Ch$, belyi karlik prevrashaetsya v N. z. V etom sluchae ${mathfrak M}_{N.z.}{mathfrak M}_{maks}$ N. z. poteryaet ustoichivost' i v rezul'tate relyativistskogo gravitacionnogo kollapsa prevratitsya v chernuyu dyru.
http://www.astronet.ru/db/msg/1188644
Rentgenovskie pul'sary
- istochniki peremennogo periodicheskogo rentg. izlucheniya, predstavlyayushie soboi vrashayushiesya neitronnye zvezdy s sil'nym magn. polem, izluchayushie za schet akkrecii (padeniya veshestva na ih poverhnost'). Magn. polya na poverhnosti R.p. ~ 1011-1014 Gs. Svetimosti bol'shinstva R.p. ot 1035-1039 erg/s. Periody sledovaniya impul'sov P ot 0,7 s do nesk. tysyach s. R.p. vhodyat v tesnye dvoinye zvezdnye sistemy, vtorym komponentom k-ryh yavl. normal'naya (nevyrozhdennaya) zvezda, postavlyayushaya veshestvo, neobhodimoe dlya akkrecii i norm. funkcionirovaniya R.p. Esli vtoroi komponent nahoditsya na stadii evolyucii, kogda skorost' poteri massy (etim komponentom) mala (sm. Evolyuciya tesnyh dvoinyh zvezd), neitronnaya zvezda ne proyavlyaet sebya kak R.p. Rentg. pul'sary vstrechayutsya kak v massivnyh molodyh dvoinyh zvezdyh sistemah, otnosyashihsya k naseleniyu I Galaktiki i lezhashih v ee ploskosti, tak i v malomassivnyh dvoinyh sistemah, otnosyashihsya k naseleniyu II i prinadlezhashih k sferich. sostavlyayushei Galaktiki. R.p. otkryty takzhe v Magellanovyh Oblakah. Vsego otkryto ok. 20 R.p.
Na nachal'nom etape issledovanii otkryvaemym rentg. ob'ektam prisvaivalis' naimenovaniya po sozvezdiyam, v k-ryh oni nahodyatsya. Napr., Gerkules X-1 oznachaet pervyi po rentg. yarkosti ob'ekt v sozvezdii Gerkulesa, Kentavr H-3 - tretii po yarkosti v sozvezdii Kentavra. R.p. v Malom Magellanovom Oblake oboznachaetsya kak SMC X-1, v Bol'shom Magellanovom Oblake - LMC X-4. Obnaruzhenie so sputnikov bol'shogo chisla rentg. istochnikov potrebovalo dr. sistemy oboznachenii.
Uskorenie i zamedlenie vrasheniya neitronnyh zvezd.
V otlichie ot radiopul'sarov (nek-rye iz k-ryh, v chastnosti pul'sary v Krabe i Parusah, izluchayut i v rentg. diapazone, sm. Pul'sary), izluchayushih za schet energii vrasheniya zamagnichennoi neitronnoi zvezdy i uvelichivashih svoi period so vremenem, R.p., izluchayushie za schet akkrecii, uskoryayut svoe vrashenie.
Uvazhaemyi
Dmitrii Mamontov
Spasibo za otvet.
Esli ya pravil'no ponyal, to istochnik
nepreryvnogo rentgenovskogo izlucheniya
so stabil'noi intensivnost'yu - nazyvaetsya
Chernoi Dyroi .
Esli rentgenovskoe izluchenie menyaet intensivnost'
to eto ili neitronnaya zvezda ili
rentgenovskii pul'sar.
Zdes' avtor chernyh dyr - sem' pyatnic na nedelyu,
sperva govoril vot tak -
...Chernaya dyrá oblast' v prostranstve-vremeni,
gravitacionnoe prityazhenie kotoroi nastol'ko veliko,
chto pokinut' ee ne mogut dazhe ob'ekty, dvizhushiesya
so skorost'yu sveta (v tom chisle i kvanty samogo sveta)....
Potom ego ozarilo v 1975 i on odaril chernye dyry i vseh
astrofizikom izlucheniem ot chernyh dyr.
---...Izluchénie Hókinga ...---
......Material iz Vikipedii
Izluchénie Hókinga process ispuskaniya
raznoobraznyh elementarnyh chastic,
preimushestvenno fotonov, chernoi dyroi.
Predskazan teoreticheski Stivenom Hokingom v
1974 godu.[1] Rabote Hokinga predshestvoval
ego vizit v Moskvu v 1973 godu, gde on vstrechalsya
s sovetskimi uchenymi Yakovom Zel'dovichem i
Alekseem Starobinskim. Oni prodemonstrirovali
Hokingu, chto v sootvetstvii s principom
neopredelennosti kvantovoi mehaniki
vrashayushiesya chernye dyry dolzhny
porozhdat' i izluchat' chasticy.[2]
Isparenie chernoi dyry kvantovyi process.
Delo v tom, chto ponyatie o chernoi dyre kak ob'ekte,
kotoryi nichego ne izluchaet, a mozhet lish' pogloshat' materiyu,
spravedlivo do teh por, poka ne uchityvayutsya kvantovye effekty.
V kvantovoi zhe mehanike, blagodarya tunnelirovaniyu,
poyavlyaetsya vozmozhnost' preodolevat' potencial'nye bar'ery,
nepreodolimye dlya nekvantovoi sistemy. Utverzhdenie,
chto konechnoe sostoyanie chernoi dyry stacionarno,
pravil'no lish' v ramkah obychnoi, ne kvantovoi teorii
tyagoteniya. Kvantovye effekty vedut k tomu, chto na samom
dele chernaya dyra dolzhna nepreryvno izluchat', teryaya pri
etom svoyu energiyu.....
Itogo
...Izluchénie Hókinga process ispuskaniya
raznoobraznyh elementarnyh chastic,
preimushestvenno fotonov, chernoi dyroi....
A gospodin A.M.ChEREPAShUK, v Vashei ssylke,
ya tak ponyal reshil - zachem dobru propadat' - pust'
izluchenie ( Izluchénie Hókinga) iz chernoi dyry
budet eshe i preimushestvenno iz rentgenovskih chastic.
Uvazhaemyi
Dmitrii Mamontov
Moe - A vot zdes' ya Vam mogu predlozhit' sdelat' u kazhdoi stat'i schetchik, - ponyal -ne ponyal,
Vashe - Dlya bazovogo ponimaniya nuzhno umet' chitat' i imet' nekotoruyu podgotovku v ramkah hotya by shkoly. U Vas takaya podgotovka, sudya po vsemu, hromaet na obe nogi, poetomu Vy ne ponimaete bol'shinstvo statei. Dlya utochnyayushih voprosov est' kommentarii, dlya bazovoi podgotovki - shkola i uchebniki.
- Vy dumaete chto vse uchennye pishut pravil'nye stat'i, i nikto stat'i ne vysasyvaet iz pal'ca a potom ne rzhet nad chitatelyami, a Vash sait chtoby chitat' - to nado byt' doktorom nauk, i v tozhe samoe vremya Vy lichno ne mozhete otvetit' pryamo na pryamye voprosy, po etoi stat'e. Vy menya v principe zaintrigovali, ya podumayu chtoby takoi puzyr' vysosat' iz pal'ca v ramkah paradigmy, chtoby vse vokrug azh zaaplodirovali za isklyuchitel'no vysokohudozhestvennyi idiotizm v ramkah breda sivoi kobyly.
Moe-Ne rasskazhete Vashe otnoshenie k vyskazyvaniyu, -
Esli opyt ne sovpadaet s teoriei to tem huzhe dlya opyta?
Napomnyu -
Moe - So vtorogo Vashego otveta ya ponyal - chto u Vas est' metody dokazatel'stv kotorye pozvolyayut opredelit' kakimi byli v pervye momenty bol'shogo vzryva zvezdy, chernye dyry , temperatura i drugie razlichnye svoistva prostranstva i svoistva razlichnyh fizicheskih ob'ektov.
Vashe - Ne u menya. U astronomov, astrofizikov i kosmologov.
Moe- Esli mne ne mozhet opponent srazu vnyatno izlozhit' otvet na moi prostoi vopros po obsuzhdaemoi stat'e, to ya ne obyazan verit' napisannomu, a skoree naoborot - vynuzhden zasomnevat'sya.
Po povodu gromkih familii v astrofizike - to esli Vy proanaliziruete ih biografiyu i trudovye zaslugi i proanaliziruete ih prichastnost' k astrofizike, to oni vse v astrofizike - diletanty, kotorye idei vbrasyvali v astrofiziku ot sluchaya k sluchayu, i ser'ezno ei ni kto ne zanimalsya. Po etomu vsya astrofizika i sostoit iz razroznennyh idei, - ozaryalok, kotorye posledovateli pytayutsya sostykovyvat' mezhdu soboi po prichine poyavleniya novoi izmeritel'noi tehniki.
A astrofiziku u menya hobbi let 7, tak chto ya prochital stol'ko statei raznyh, chto mogu delat' vyvody chto vysoska iz pal'ca, a chto i super gramotno napisano .
Samoe smeshnoe chto super stat'i absolyutno neizvestny.
http://crydee.sai.msu.ru/Universe_and_us/4num/v4pap26.htm
-Ochen' horoshaya stat'ya.
http://www.anomaliy.ru/discovery/482
"Sverhnovye tipa I a, kak polagayut, formiruyutsya
posle vzryvov belyh karlikov, sverhplotnyh mertvyh zvezd razmerom s
nashu Zemlyu, kotorye kogda-to byli yadrom solncepodobnogo svetila, i
ch'ya vneshnyaya obolochka rastvorilas' v kosmose.
Odna iz osobennostei etogo tipa otsutstvie vodoroda, i eto
nesmotrya na to, chto vodorod yavlyaetsya samym rasprostranennym
himicheskim elementom."
Vot eta stat'ya - v principe dolzhna byla perevernut' vsyu astrofiziku,
po toi prichine chto net vodoroda vnutri zvezdy. A u tekushei paradigmy vodorod vygoraet. I astrofiziki vnyatno otvetit' ne mogut prichinu po kotoroi samyi legkii vodorod - preodolevaet gravitaciyu stanovitsya tyazhelee vseh metallov i letit v yadro zvezdy pouchastvovat' v yadernoi reakcii. I V to chto samyi legkii vodorod preodolevaet letit vnutr' zvezdy -ya ne veryu, hot' v millione knizhek eto budet napisano, i tysyache uchebnikov. Tak kak napisannoe ne podtverzhdeno fizicheskimi svoistvami a protivorechit im.
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- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 29.02.2012 20:17, 1.2 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 1.03.2012 13:12, 2.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 1.03.2012 17:42, 1.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 15.03.2012 4:12, 986 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 18.03.2012 14:13, 3.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 18.03.2012 20:06, 1.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 20.03.2012 14:56, 902 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 24.03.2012 16:55, 1.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A. I. Nezhivyh, 31.03.2012 20:08, 407 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 4.04.2012 18:16, 1014 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 4.04.2012 18:22, 256 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 4.04.2012 18:34, 764 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 4.04.2012 18:54, 456 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 5.04.2012 12:33, 1.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 5.04.2012 16:15, 2.4 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 6.04.2012 13:39, 1.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 17.04.2012 15:33, 1.8 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 20.04.2012 13:19, 2.4 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 24.04.2012 9:04, 2.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 24.04.2012 18:01, 2.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 24.04.2012 18:16, 816 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.04.2012 21:31, 5.7 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 26.04.2012 13:25, 3.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 26.04.2012 13:55, 2.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 29.04.2012 11:22, 1.8 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 29.04.2012 15:47, 2.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 29.04.2012 18:14, 13.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 30.04.2012 2:28, 1.4 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 30.04.2012 12:41, 41.4 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 30.04.2012 13:44, 595 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 30.04.2012 13:57, 4.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 4.05.2012 21:00, 3.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 5.05.2012 2:11, 2.2 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 5.05.2012 13:58, 480 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 5.05.2012 15:35, 3.2 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 10.05.2012 14:13, 3.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 10.05.2012 14:27, 605 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 16.05.2012 2:09, 3.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 16.05.2012 2:20, 353 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.05.2012 2:10, 2.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.05.2012 23:19, 4.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.05.2012 23:35, 74 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 26.05.2012 0:48, 2.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 26.05.2012 8:39, 105 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 26.05.2012 9:03, 1.2 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 27.05.2012 0:37, 5.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 31.05.2012 9:03, 2.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 31.05.2012 22:57, 1.8 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 27.06.2012 21:00, 2.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 11.07.2012 1:52, 3.7 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 23.07.2012 23:15, 2.4 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 23.07.2012 23:23, 644 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 23.07.2012 23:32, 1.4 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 23.07.2012 23:36, 168 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.07.2012 1:28, 743 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.07.2012 1:53, 447 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.07.2012 9:09, 1.7 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.07.2012 21:30, 2.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 26.07.2012 8:16, 1.4 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (V. A. Aksenova, 26.07.2012 20:06, 159 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 26.07.2012 20:39, 733 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 26.07.2012 20:47, 424 Bait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (V. A. Aksenova, 26.07.2012 21:09, 28 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 26.07.2012 21:48, 408 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (V. A. Aksenova, 27.07.2012 10:24, 564 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 27.07.2012 19:27, 28.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 27.07.2012 19:32, 6.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 27.07.2012 19:40, 5.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 27.07.2012 19:44, 2.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 27.07.2012 19:46, 34.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 27.07.2012 20:44, 1.4 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.07.2012 12:25, 769 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.07.2012 17:42, 3.2 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.07.2012 17:47, 2.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.07.2012 17:52, 635 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.07.2012 17:57, 2.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.07.2012 17:57, 2.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.07.2012 17:58, 1.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (V. A. Aksenova, 28.07.2012 20:02, 256 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.07.2012 22:25, 6.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 29.07.2012 10:12, 1.2 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (V. A. Aksenova, 29.07.2012 19:24, 890 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 29.07.2012 20:15, 1.7 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 29.07.2012 20:38, 4.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (V. A. Aksenova, 29.07.2012 22:18, 218 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 29.07.2012 22:58, 1.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (V. A. Aksenova, 30.07.2012 11:16, 756 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 3.08.2012 21:27, 871 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 4.08.2012 9:40, 369 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 7.08.2012 0:13, 8.9 KBait, otvetov: 2)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (E. A. Tihomirov, 10.08.2012 21:25, 4.2 KBait)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (E. A. Tihomirov, 10.08.2012 22:37, 2.8 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 10.08.2012 23:21, 1003 Bait, otvetov: 2)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (E. A. Tihomirov, 13.08.2012 17:18, 2.8 KBait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[3]: Chernaya dyra (E. A. Tihomirov, 13.08.2012 19:06, 541 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 11.08.2012 10:15, 1.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 12.08.2012 10:04, 1.8 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 12.08.2012 17:55, 2.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 13.08.2012 20:45, 32.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 13.08.2012 21:24, 656 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 14.08.2012 5:57, 1.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 14.08.2012 6:05, 300 Bait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (E. A. Tihomirov, 14.08.2012 15:02, 638 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (E. A. Tihomirov, 14.08.2012 15:48, 1.8 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 15.08.2012 5:48, 823 Bait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (E. A. Tihomirov, 15.08.2012 15:34, 1019 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 15.08.2012 21:28, 533 Bait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (E. A. Tihomirov, 16.08.2012 15:44, 711 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (E. A. Tihomirov, 21.08.2012 22:35, 1.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 24.08.2012 20:28, 1.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 24.08.2012 20:38, 636 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 24.08.2012 20:44, 707 Bait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (E. A. Tihomirov, 24.08.2012 21:52, 989 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 24.08.2012 22:30, 1.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 24.08.2012 22:39, 1.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 24.08.2012 23:07, 692 Bait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (E. A. Tihomirov, 25.08.2012 11:12, 1.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.08.2012 11:36, 653 Bait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (E. A. Tihomirov, 25.08.2012 23:29, 2.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.08.2012 19:29, 1.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.08.2012 20:50, 8.8 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 26.08.2012 0:29, 953 Bait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (E. A. Tihomirov, 26.08.2012 20:12, 3.7 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 26.08.2012 0:47, 507 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (E. A. Tihomirov, 29.08.2012 13:46, 1.4 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (E. A. Tihomirov, 29.08.2012 14:01, 637 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 12.09.2012 21:05, 1.4 KBait, otvetov: 2)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (S. V. Stoyanov, 10.03.2013 12:49, 147 Bait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[3]: Chernaya dyra (O. A. Tret'yakova, 11.03.2013 15:56, 91 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 12.09.2012 22:57, 200 Bait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (D. V. Tret'yakov, 19.09.2012 11:33, 177 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.09.2012 20:40, 365 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.09.2012 20:48, 575 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.09.2012 20:55, 504 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 29.09.2012 16:09, 1.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.10.2012 17:11, 1.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.10.2012 17:16, 344 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.10.2012 19:55, 1.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.10.2012 23:42, 1.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 4.11.2012 12:56, 2.7 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 15.11.2012 23:45, 5.7 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 15.11.2012 23:48, 2.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 6.01.2013 12:08, 764 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 7.01.2013 19:10, 1.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A. S. Ivanov, 8.01.2013 2:05, 471 Bait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (Yu. S. Reshnikov, 8.01.2013 9:55, 409 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 8.01.2013 9:37, 38.2 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 8.01.2013 9:42, 622 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 8.01.2013 22:00, 1.4 KBait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (Yu. S. Reshnikov, 9.01.2013 7:22, 568 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 8.01.2013 23:02, 275 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 8.01.2013 23:03, 65 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 9.01.2013 10:01, 298 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 9.01.2013 10:06, 265 Bait, otvetov: 5)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (Yu. S. Reshnikov, 9.01.2013 11:18, 575 Bait, otvetov: 4)
- Re[3]: Chernaya dyra (Yu. S. Reshnikov, 9.01.2013 12:44, 557 Bait, otvetov: 3)
- Re[4]: Chernaya dyra (Yu. S. Reshnikov, 9.01.2013 21:34, 451 Bait, otvetov: 2)
- Re[5]: Chernaya dyra (Yu. S. Reshnikov, 10.01.2013 10:19, 536 Bait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[6]: Chernaya dyra (Yu. S. Reshnikov, 11.01.2013 6:23, 555 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 11.01.2013 8:57, 2.4 KBait, otvetov: 3)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (Yu. S. Reshnikov, 11.01.2013 12:48, 567 Bait, otvetov: 2)
- Re[3]: Chernaya dyra (Yu. S. Reshnikov, 11.01.2013 14:18, 543 Bait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[4]: Chernaya dyra (Yu. S. Reshnikov, 11.01.2013 14:36, 439 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 11.01.2013 21:30, 1.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 11.01.2013 23:01, 2.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 11.01.2013 23:11, 758 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 11.01.2013 23:21, 4.2 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 12.01.2013 9:32, 1.0 KBait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (Yu. S. Reshnikov, 12.01.2013 9:59, 534 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 12.01.2013 10:47, 1.7 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 12.01.2013 10:54, 441 Bait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (Yu. S. Reshnikov, 12.01.2013 12:19, 580 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 12.01.2013 15:00, 466 Bait, otvetov: 2)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (Yu. S. Reshnikov, 12.01.2013 17:18, 508 Bait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[3]: Chernaya dyra (Yu. S. Reshnikov, 12.01.2013 17:54, 455 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 12.01.2013 17:20, 499 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 12.01.2013 18:03, 532 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (Yu. S. Reshnikov, 18.01.2013 17:14, 463 Bait, otvetov: 2)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (Yu. S. Reshnikov, 19.01.2013 0:14, 557 Bait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[3]: Chernaya dyra (Yu. S. Reshnikov, 19.01.2013 8:58, 349 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (V. B. Daneev, 19.01.2013 16:11, 577 Bait, otvetov: 2)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (Yu. S. Reshnikov, 20.01.2013 8:23, 575 Bait)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (V. P., 24.01.2013 21:10, 1.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (V. P., 24.01.2013 21:02, 349 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (Yu. S. Reshnikov, 26.01.2013 9:48, 564 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (S. A. Pikalev, 2.02.2013 15:20, 248 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 2.02.2013 20:58, 255 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (S. A. Pikalev, 2.02.2013 23:46, 165 Bait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 3.02.2013 10:32, 361 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 3.02.2013 10:19, 419 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 3.02.2013 10:21, 122 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (S. A. Pikalev, 3.02.2013 14:08, 268 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 3.02.2013 14:43, 33.4 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (v. g. gruzinov, 5.02.2013 19:57, 225 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 5.02.2013 21:33, 235 Bait, otvetov: 2)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (V. A. Burdin, 9.02.2013 13:57, 824 Bait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[3]: Chernaya dyra (V. A. Burdin, 9.02.2013 14:02, 340 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 9.02.2013 16:08, 284 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 14.02.2013 22:58, 866 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 16.02.2013 1:33, 3.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 16.02.2013 18:41, 2.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 16.02.2013 18:46, 113 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 17.02.2013 12:17, 1.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 17.02.2013 12:18, 266 Bait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (v. g. gruzinov, 20.02.2013 15:49, 859 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 24.02.2013 13:16, 1.7 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.02.2013 23:07, 5.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.02.2013 23:13, 118 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 26.02.2013 0:31, 1.8 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 26.02.2013 0:33, 242 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 26.02.2013 0:34, 134 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 26.02.2013 1:02, 1.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 2.03.2013 20:11, 4.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 2.03.2013 20:34, 398 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 3.03.2013 14:41, 4.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 17.03.2013 14:00, 1.4 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 21.03.2013 12:45, 3.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 21.03.2013 22:08, 9.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 21.03.2013 22:13, 100 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 22.03.2013 3:36, 2.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 22.03.2013 3:38, 1.8 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 22.03.2013 3:53, 777 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 22.03.2013 12:48, 422 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 22.03.2013 20:23, 3.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 22.03.2013 20:38, 806 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 22.03.2013 20:55, 506 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 23.03.2013 0:22, 4.7 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 23.03.2013 1:06, 5.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.03.2013 13:08, 7.2 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.03.2013 18:34, 1.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.03.2013 21:29, 2.4 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 26.03.2013 9:20, 2.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (o. s. baranov, 28.03.2013 20:30, 341 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.03.2013 21:40, 740 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.03.2013 21:46, 370 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.03.2013 21:50, 183 Bait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (o. s. baranov, 28.03.2013 23:43, 17 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.03.2013 23:53, 35 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (o. s. baranov, 29.03.2013 12:15, 8 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 31.03.2013 18:41, 14.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 31.03.2013 18:52, 47.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 31.03.2013 18:54, 4.8 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 3.04.2013 21:59, 1.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 3.04.2013 22:03, 211 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 6.04.2013 11:19, 2.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 6.04.2013 12:17, 9.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 6.04.2013 12:33, 1.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 6.04.2013 13:29, 400 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 8.04.2013 21:23, 5.2 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 9.05.2013 21:46, 4.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 9.05.2013 22:16, 234 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 10.05.2013 11:36, 6.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 11.05.2013 13:04, 3.2 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 11.05.2013 13:13, 627 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 13.05.2013 21:53, 4.8 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 13.05.2013 22:44, 1.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 13.05.2013 22:47, 177 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 14.05.2013 8:20, 839 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 16.05.2013 8:56, 822 Bait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (A. V. Malkin, 16.05.2013 14:48, 108 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 16.05.2013 22:36, 333 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 17.05.2013 19:28, 1.4 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 21.05.2013 23:10, 1.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 23.05.2013 22:35, 3.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 24.05.2013 7:55, 2.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 24.05.2013 8:15, 388 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 27.05.2013 21:09, 923 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.05.2013 20:30, 1.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.05.2013 21:05, 207 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 30.05.2013 8:55, 1.7 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 30.05.2013 8:56, 322 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 9.06.2013 12:19, 2.4 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 14.06.2013 8:30, 1.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 14.06.2013 8:38, 428 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 14.06.2013 20:38, 2.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 18.06.2013 21:18, 74 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 18.06.2013 21:21, 51.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 18.06.2013 21:23, 78.8 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 18.06.2013 21:24, 30 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 18.06.2013 21:52, 248 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 18.06.2013 22:07, 1.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 19.06.2013 6:23, 31.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 19.06.2013 6:27, 446 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 19.06.2013 7:06, 3.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 19.06.2013 7:32, 17.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 19.06.2013 7:55, 14.8 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 19.06.2013 7:56, 1.2 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 19.06.2013 9:07, 20.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 20.06.2013 22:53, 789 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (V. E. Krauchuk, 21.06.2013 22:21, 508 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (V. E. Krauchuk, 21.06.2013 22:39, 552 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 21.06.2013 23:55, 2.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 21.06.2013 23:57, 4.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 22.06.2013 0:06, 9.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 22.06.2013 20:59, 9.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 22.06.2013 22:25, 5.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 23.06.2013 13:46, 3.4 KBait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (A. V. Malkin, 23.06.2013 21:37, 3.7 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 23.06.2013 23:37, 988 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 23.06.2013 23:48, 695 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.06.2013 13:50, 3.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 3.07.2013 8:00, 4.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 3.07.2013 8:12, 3.2 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 3.07.2013 21:25, 5.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A. V. Konovalov, 8.07.2013 0:25, 1.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 8.07.2013 8:41, 297 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 8.07.2013 8:53, 1.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 8.07.2013 8:53, 1.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 11.07.2013 21:39, 1.4 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 11.07.2013 21:40, 223 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (V. R. Skens, 12.07.2013 10:49, 200 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 13.07.2013 17:28, 247 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 13.07.2013 17:41, 1.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 13.07.2013 18:07, 486 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 13.07.2013 18:10, 1.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 13.07.2013 18:26, 871 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 13.07.2013 19:05, 26.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 13.07.2013 19:08, 1.7 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (V. R. Skens, 17.07.2013 5:47, 282 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 21.07.2013 10:50, 1.2 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 22.07.2013 7:28, 1.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (S. M. Andreichuk, 4.08.2013 10:42, 1.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 4.08.2013 15:49, 54 Bait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (S. M. Andreichuk, 6.08.2013 15:26, 991 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 6.08.2013 20:56, 2.5 KBait, otvetov: 2)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (S. M. Andreichuk, 7.08.2013 11:41, 1.3 KBait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[3]: Chernaya dyra (S. M. Andreichuk, 7.08.2013 19:30, 434 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 7.08.2013 19:59, 1.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 7.08.2013 20:28, 5.4 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (O. E. Korobeinikova, 7.08.2013 21:25, 142 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (O. E. Korobeinikova, 7.08.2013 21:42, 108 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 7.08.2013 21:44, 1.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 7.08.2013 22:54, 4.4 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 7.08.2013 23:05, 772 Bait, otvetov: 2)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (S. M. Andreichuk, 8.08.2013 18:58, 441 Bait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[3]: Chernaya dyra (S. M. Andreichuk, 14.08.2013 14:44, 3.4 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 14.08.2013 21:03, 814 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 14.08.2013 21:05, 79 Bait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (S. M. Andreichuk, 14.08.2013 21:54, 820 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 14.08.2013 22:36, 1.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 14.08.2013 23:04, 979 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 14.08.2013 23:22, 426 Bait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (S. M. Andreichuk, 15.08.2013 8:06, 627 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 18.08.2013 14:33, 2.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 18.08.2013 22:14, 940 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A. A. Volkov, 19.08.2013 12:12, 1.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 21.08.2013 20:40, 1.4 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 24.08.2013 13:55, 887 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 24.08.2013 14:49, 1.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.08.2013 12:44, 1.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.08.2013 22:31, 2.2 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.08.2013 22:33, 2.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.08.2013 22:56, 11.8 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 27.08.2013 0:23, 1.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 27.08.2013 0:37, 335 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 5.09.2013 22:40, 2.7 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 5.09.2013 22:52, 4.4 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 7.09.2013 16:46, 3.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 7.09.2013 18:54, 1.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 7.09.2013 19:05, 941 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 7.09.2013 19:12, 10.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 7.09.2013 19:31, 452 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 10.09.2013 20:26, 1.8 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 11.09.2013 20:50, 2.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 11.09.2013 21:17, 2.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 13.09.2013 7:40, 2.2 KBait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (A. S. Kolomenskii, 14.09.2013 19:27, 75 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 14.09.2013 20:32, 3.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 14.09.2013 20:36, 276 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 12.10.2013 11:03, 9.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 13.10.2013 20:11, 67.2 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 13.10.2013 20:19, 99.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 16.10.2013 22:48, 3.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 16.10.2013 23:48, 2.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 31.10.2013 22:15, 4.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 31.10.2013 22:25, 632 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 31.10.2013 23:10, 10.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 6.11.2013 22:07, 1.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 15.11.2013 22:39, 91 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 17.11.2013 9:50, 760 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 17.11.2013 10:10, 5.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 17.11.2013 10:24, 1.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 17.11.2013 14:07, 2.2 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 17.11.2013 17:57, 764 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 17.11.2013 19:08, 685 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 18.11.2013 8:41, 2.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 20.11.2013 10:59, 2.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 20.11.2013 20:32, 479 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 22.11.2013 18:44, 4.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 30.11.2013 23:00, 139 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 1.12.2013 0:43, 1.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 4.12.2013 2:11, 2.2 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 4.12.2013 2:29, 2.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 4.12.2013 22:50, 3.2 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 7.12.2013 13:43, 4.7 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 15.12.2013 6:59, 2.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 22.12.2013 10:48, 2.8 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 22.12.2013 21:52, 4.8 KBait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (D. V. lom, 23.12.2013 11:56, 217 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 23.12.2013 21:41, 2.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 23.12.2013 21:49, 476 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 26.12.2013 22:37, 1.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 26.12.2013 23:05, 748 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 26.12.2013 23:12, 578 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.12.2013 13:42, 8.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 30.12.2013 8:41, 3.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 30.12.2013 13:13, 398 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 3.01.2014 14:11, 2.8 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 3.01.2014 15:26, 721 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 27.01.2014 22:00, 1.2 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 1.02.2014 0:45, 2.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 2.02.2014 13:09, 970 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 3.02.2014 22:27, 5.8 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 18.02.2014 0:19, 2.7 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 27.02.2014 2:52, 2.7 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 8.03.2014 10:50, 12.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 22.03.2014 11:52, 4.2 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 22.03.2014 18:17, 5.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 2.04.2014 19:28, 22.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 2.04.2014 19:34, 240 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 2.04.2014 21:05, 3.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 14.04.2014 19:33, 117 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 14.04.2014 20:16, 2.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 14.04.2014 21:16, 1.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 14.04.2014 22:54, 1.8 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 27.04.2014 18:46, 2.2 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 27.04.2014 18:49, 169 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 4.05.2014 15:48, 2.8 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 4.05.2014 16:16, 1.7 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 4.05.2014 20:06, 2.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 4.05.2014 20:14, 310 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 10.05.2014 16:39, 2.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 11.05.2014 14:35, 8.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 11.05.2014 17:05, 3.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 15.05.2014 22:03, 2.4 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 18.05.2014 13:43, 1.4 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 21.05.2014 7:57, 1.4 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 21.05.2014 8:23, 2.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 21.05.2014 20:39, 10.8 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 21.05.2014 20:45, 321 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 23.05.2014 1:17, 3.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 23.05.2014 1:45, 4.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 23.05.2014 11:07, 3.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 23.05.2014 14:45, 2.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 23.05.2014 15:12, 2.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 23.05.2014 15:16, 257 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 23.05.2014 15:25, 5.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 24.05.2014 14:10, 6.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 24.05.2014 16:45, 4.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 24.05.2014 16:56, 889 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.05.2014 12:34, 3.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 29.06.2014 13:07, 3.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 1.07.2014 21:15, 2.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 1.07.2014 21:43, 8.6 KBait)
- Teoriya pustoty vk.com/tviss (Serg Ol, 4.07.2014 23:54, 25 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 10.07.2014 11:56, 2.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 10.07.2014 12:07, 11.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 11.07.2014 10:51, 1.2 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 11.07.2014 11:55, 1.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 12.07.2014 8:54, 2.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 12.07.2014 22:33, 3.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 13.07.2014 9:58, 4.7 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 13.07.2014 12:33, 6.2 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (v. n. bespalov, 22.07.2014 13:30, 1021 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 22.07.2014 15:09, 8.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 22.07.2014 15:13, 13.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.07.2014 9:26, 2.7 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 29.07.2014 23:32, 2.8 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 29.07.2014 23:52, 1.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 4.08.2014 15:15, 1.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 4.08.2014 16:00, 507 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 4.08.2014 16:14, 671 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 4.08.2014 16:19, 193 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 4.08.2014 22:32, 1.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 5.08.2014 22:56, 1.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 5.08.2014 23:17, 1.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 17.08.2014 10:16, 3.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 17.08.2014 16:08, 891 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 24.08.2014 13:25, 2.3 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 24.08.2014 20:07, 1.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 24.08.2014 21:28, 4.4 KBait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (A. V. Talikov, 5.09.2014 22:09, 323 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.08.2014 14:49, 1.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.08.2014 15:07, 4.7 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.08.2014 15:49, 3.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.08.2014 15:56, 595 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 6.09.2014 9:00, 295 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 13.09.2014 11:48, 2.2 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 13.09.2014 11:51, 109 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 23.09.2014 22:17, 3.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 23.09.2014 22:19, 234 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 23.09.2014 23:09, 329 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.09.2014 13:03, 5.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.09.2014 13:13, 1.7 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.09.2014 14:03, 1.8 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 8.10.2014 21:36, 4.4 KBait, otvetov: 1)
- Re[2]: Chernaya dyra (Evgen'evna L'vovyanka, 27.10.2014 13:10, 64 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 14.10.2014 21:13, 2.7 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.10.2014 14:26, 4.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.10.2014 14:43, 585 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 27.10.2014 20:55, 580 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.10.2014 12:15, 4.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 28.10.2014 12:40, 1.1 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 31.10.2014 20:25, 52 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 9.11.2014 14:07, 1.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 9.11.2014 14:26, 1.0 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 10.11.2014 19:32, 11.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 10.11.2014 19:40, 715 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 10.11.2014 19:53, 555 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 17.11.2014 20:03, 2.4 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (Albert Timashov, 19.11.2014 23:03, 826 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 20.11.2014 19:18, 527 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 24.11.2014 18:53, 80 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A.P. Vasi, 25.12.2015 19:10, 2.5 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (A. V. Postnikov, 23.02.2016 5:02, 93 Bait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (R. M. Noev, 13.06.2016 22:08, 1.6 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (R. M. Noev, 13.06.2016 22:28, 1.9 KBait)
- Re: Chernaya dyra (R. M. Noev, 17.05.2017 17:56, 449 Bait)