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Re: Opredelenie ponyatiya Planeta II
2.04.2013 22:27 | A.P. Vasi

Sobstvenno est' eshe vot eto, po prichine togo
chto ne Vy pervyi a stil' u vseh odinakovyi,
po etomu rekomenduyu.

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Opredelenie ponyatiya Planeta II (IAU, ; Astronet, 24.08.2006 11:31, 5.7 KBait, otvetov: 6) Posle obsuzhdeniya rezolyuciya, izmenyayushaya opredelenie ponyatiya "planeta", raspalas' na dve, za kazhduyu iz kotoryh (v dvuh variantah) budet provodit'sya nezavisimoe golosovanie. Zametim, chto imeyutsya v vidu tol'ko planety Solnechnoi sistemy, k ekzoplanetam dannye rezolyucii otnosheniya ne imeyut.

Tekst dan v perevode, original'noe opredelenie, vzyatoe s saita IAU, privedeno nizhe.

IAU Rezolyuciya po planetam
Rezolyuciya 5A

(1) Planeta¹ eto nebesnoe telo, kotoroe (a) obrashaetsya vokrug Solnca, (b) imeet dostatochnuyu massu, dlya togo, chtoby samogravitaciya prevoshodila tverdotel'nye sily i telo moglo prinyat' gidrostaticheski ravnovesnuyu (blizkuyu k sfericheskoi) formu i (c) ochishaet okrestnosti svoei orbity (t.e. ryadom s planetoi net drugih sravnimyh s nei tel).

(2) "Karlikovaya planeta" – nebesnoe telo, kotoroe (a) obrashaetsya vokrug Solnca, (b) imeet dostatochnuyu massu, dlya togo, chtoby samogravitaciya prevoshodila tverdotel'nye sily i telo moglo prinyat' gidrostaticheski ravnovesnuyu (blizkuyu k sfericheskoi) formu², (c) ne ochishaet okrestnosti svoei orbity i (d) ne yavlyaetsya sputnikom (planety).

(3) Vse ostal'nye ob'ekty³, obrashayushiesya vokrug Solnca, ohvatyvayutsya ponyatiem "Malye tela Solnechnoi sistemy".

Vstavit' slovo "klassicheskaya" pered slovom "planeta" v punkte (1) i snoske 1 Rezolyucii 5A. Eto budet chitat'sya kak:

(1) Klassicheskaya planeta¹ eto nebesnoe telo, kotoroe ...

¹Vosem' (klassicheskih) planet: Merkurii, Venera, Zemlya, Mars, Yupiter, Saturn, Uran i Neptun.
²IAU predstoit razrabotat' kriterii po kotorym karlikovye planety budut otdelyat'sya ot drugih klassov ob'ektov.
³V nastoyashee vremya on vklyuchaet v sebya bol'shinstvo asteroidov, trans-Neptunovyh ob'ektov (TNOs), komet i drugih malyh tel Solnechnoi sistemy, isklyuchaya sputniki planet.

IAU Rezolyuciya po Plutonu
Rezolyuciya 6A

Puton yavlyaetsya "karlikovoi planetoi" soglasno privedennomu vyshe opredeleniyu. On rassmatrivaetsya kak prototip novogo klassa trans-Neptunovyh ob'ektov.

Rezolyuciya 6B
K tekstu Rezolyucii 6A dobavit' sleduyushee predlozhenie:

Etot klass budet nazyvat'sya "plutony" ("plutonian objects").

Original'nyi tekst rezolyucii

IAU Resolution: Definition of a Planet in the Solar System
Contemporary observations are changing our understanding of planetary systems, and it is important that our nomenclature for objects reflect our current understanding. This applies, in particular, to the designation 'planets'. The word 'planet' originally described 'wanderers' that were known only as moving lights in the sky. Recent discoveries lead us to create a new definition, which we can make using currently available scientific information.

RESOLUTION 5A
The IAU therefore resolves that planets and other bodies in our Solar System be defined into three distinct categories in the following way:

(1) A planet¹ is a celestial body that (a) is in orbit around the Sun, (b) has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape, and (c) has cleared the neighbourhood around its orbit.

(2) A 'dwarf planet' is a celestial body that (a) is in orbit around the Sun, (b) has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape², (c) has not cleared the neighbourhood around its orbit, and (d) is not a satellite.

(3) All other objects³ orbiting the Sun shall be referred to collectively as "Small Solar System Bodies".

RESOLUTION 5B
Insert the word "classical" before the word "planet" in Resolution 5A, Section (1), and footnote 1. Thus reading:

(1) A classical planet is a celestial body . . .

and

IAU Resolution: Pluto
RESOLUTION 6A
The IAU further resolves:

Pluto is a 'dwarf planet' by the above definition and is recognized as the prototype of a new category of trans-Neptunian objects.

RESOLUTION 6B
The following sentence is added to Resolution 6A:

This category is to be called "plutonian objects."

¹The eight planets are: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune.
²An IAU process will be established to assign borderline objects into either dwarf planet and other categories.
³These currently include most of the Solar System asteroids, most Trans-Neptunian Objects (TNOs), comets, and other small bodies, exclude planet satellites.

Re: Opredelenie ponyatiya Planeta II (G. A. Dudarev, 1.04.2013 19:00, 577 Bait) Schitayu,chto planetami sleduet schitat' nebesnye tela,imeyushie sputniki.Merkurii i Veneru tozhe sleduet schitat' planetami,kotorye imeli sputniki ran'she,no pri ih priblizhenii k Solncu uskorenie kotorogo prevysilo uskorenie planety chto i privelo k otryvu sputnika ot planety.Otorvavshiisya sputnik stolknulsya s planetoi v poyase asteroidov chto i privelo k ih obrazovaniyu.Vot pochetu asteroidy imeyut bol'shuyu plotnost'.A v poyase Koipera rost massy komet privodit k tomu chto ih uskorenie stanovitsya bol'she Solnechnogo i eto sposobstvuet zahvatu malyh komet bol'shimi.Primer Pluton-Haron.
Re: Opredelenie ponyatiya Planeta II (A.P. Vasi, 1.04.2013 22:11, 878 Bait, otvetov: 1) Ne v obidu avtoru podobnoi bessmyslennoi
deklaracii na derevnyu nedalekih.
Vspomnil sluzhbu, avtor idei yavno ne sluzhil,
ibo esli vperedi teksta postavit' slova -
\A mozhno\
To srazu chetkii otvet - bez fizicheskogo opredeleniya,
i bez logicheskogo obosnovaniya - mozhno Mashku
za lyashku, a nachalo dolzhno byt' v stile - ne mozhno,
a - razreshite dolozhit' po prichine mol takoi-to,
i v svyazi s tem-to nado pereopredelit'
fizicheskie obosnovaniya planet, tekushie obosnovaniya
takie-to, i po prichinam takim-to yavlyayutsya
golimym porozhnyakom v sravnenii s obosnovaniem
ot takogo-to, ibo dlya etogo est' odnoznachnaya fizicheskaya
prichina i est' vozmozhnost' s pomosh'yu priborov opredelit'
raznicu v fizicheskih svoistvah i otdelit' laino ot planet.

Ya vezuchii ibo sluzhil na flote, a tot kto sluzhil na
flote tot v cirke ne smeetsya.

Re[2]: Opredelenie ponyatiya Planeta II (G. A. Dudarev, 2.04.2013 19:29, 147 Bait) Ne v obidu IVASYaM no dovod s Mashkoi eto sil'no.Moi 4 goda na TOFe konechno eto protiv Vas-Salaga.A Vashi nauchnye poznaniya eto celaya RAN.Privet Mashke.

Re: Opredelenie ponyatiya Planeta II (A.P. Vasi, 2.04.2013 21:46, 1.6 KBait) Ya otnosilsya kak k pervoaprel'skoi shutke,
po toi prichine chto pri izmenenii opredelenii
dolzhny byt' vesomye obosnovaniya s posledovatel'nym
bez vetvlenii - obosnovaniem prichiny iz kotoroi sleduet
dannaya neobhodimost'. Pri vsem pri etom nado svoimi
slovami umet' davat' opredeleniya. Ibo kosmologii
kak i fiziki bez opredelenii ne sushestvuet.
Vot Vy napisali i ne sdelali dazhe tekushego opredeleniya
planet svoimi slovami - a eto uzhe vse - priehali tak skazat'.
Ili Vy dumaete zabrosili ideyu a drugie telepaticheski
poimut Vashi mysli i razov'yut do nobelevki i potom
Vam ee vruchat.

Vot obosnuite hotya-by prichinu neobhodimosti sputnikov u planet.

I ob'yasnite chem planeta analogichnogo razmera so sputnikom,
luchshe toi chto bez sputnika.

--------------------------------------------
\\\A v poyase Koipera rost massy komet \\\

Za schet chego uvelichivaetsya massa komet, tam chto inoplanetyane
ih skleivayut drug s drugom.
--------------------------------------------

Ya Vam skazhu chto komety i asteroidy ne prityagivayut nichego
k sebe v tom chisle i avtomaticheskie stancii, oni podletayut,
na maloi vysote zavisayut i zhdut kogda ih prityanet po zakonam
N'yutona, a kometa i asteroid ne znayut chto im nado prityagivat'
i oni otdreifovyvayut kuda popalo tol'ko ne tuda kuda po nauke.
Esli zametili chto prakticheski berut i tupo razbivayut ob kometu,
i naskol'ko ya chital razrabatyvayut garpuny dlya komet i asteroidov,
vnikaete - zachem garpuny razrabatyvat' esli by prityagivalo
hot' kak-to.
Re: Opredelenie ponyatiya Planeta II (A.P. Vasi, 2.04.2013 21:56, 647 Bait) Vy voz'mite naprimer napishite na bumage i prochtite
komu-to i sprosite chto ponyatno iz napisannogo Vami.
I u Vas srazu otkroyutsya glaza i Vy smozhete ponyat'
kak nado pisat' chto-by nad Vami ne tol'ko ne smeyalis',
a i ponimali smysl togo chto Vy hotite skazat'.
Sobstvenno u eto yavleniya est' nazvanie - semanticheskii
shum - eto kogda to chto govoryat, vse vosprinimayut po raznomu,
chem bolee kratkoe izlozhenie tem sil'nee semanticheskii
shum, po etoi prichine v fizike i kosmologii kratkoe izlozhenie
ne privetstvuetsya, i tochno ne yavlyaetsya priznakom talanta, a skoree
naoborot - nedalekost'yu v dannyh voprosah.
>> Re: Opredelenie ponyatiya Planeta II (A.P. Vasi, 2.04.2013 22:27, 879 Bait) Sobstvenno est' eshe vot eto, po prichine togo
chto ne Vy pervyi a stil' u vseh odinakovyi,
po etomu rekomenduyu.

Posobie dlya teh kto hochet pisat' teorii. - Astronet
www.astronet.ru Forumy Astronomiya i Internet