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Re: Chernaya dyra
2.04.2014 20:28 | A.P. Vasi

Onlain Rishi

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Re: Fakty, stavyashie pod somnenie teoriyu Bol'shogo Vzryva
Otvet #1050 : 31.03.2014 [16:18:19]
Citata: Dmitrii Vibe ot 19.06.2009 [18:22:59]
\\\Fakt ne byvaet v kosmologii. Fakt prosto est'.\\\
\\\Da, no vy zhe vidite kak stroitsya TBV?
Kak tol'ko obnaruzhivayutsya novye nablyudatel'nye dannye, ne ukladyvayushiesya v predydushuyu model', tak tut zhe vydumyvaetsya novaya fantasticheskaya sushnost', o kotoroi ranee voobshe ne upominalos' (naprimer, inflantonnoe pole,temnaya energiya).
V etih usloviyah nikakih faktov, stavyashih pod somnenie TBV v principe byt' ne mozhet.
Odnako, pod somnenie mozhet popast' OTO, kotoraya i sposobstvovala razvitiyu TBV i v kotoruyu trudnee uzhe chto-to novoe zapihat'. Obeshali zapustit' proekt Advanced LIGO v 2014 godu, no chto-to poka ni sluhu ni duhu. Mezhdu tem est' vot takoe nablyudenie otsutstviya gravvoln http://arxiv.org/abs/0805.4758 Ego mozhno schitat' nauchnym faktom ili kak (vot zdes' interpretaciya etoi stat'i "zheltoi" pressoi http://www.membrana.ru/particle/12649 ) ?\\\

Poslednee redaktirovanie: 31.03.2014 [16:33:07] ot Rishi
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Offlain Dmitrii Vibe

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Re: Fakty, stavyashie pod somnenie teoriyu Bol'shogo Vzryva
Otvet #1051 : Vchera v 04:41:26
Citata: Rishi ot 31.03.2014 [16:18:19]
\\\Kak tol'ko obnaruzhivayutsya novye nablyudatel'nye dannye, ne ukladyvayushiesya v predydushuyu model', tak tut zhe vydumyvaetsya novaya fantasticheskaya sushnost', o kotoroi ranee voobshe ne upominalos'\\\

\\\Chto delat', inogda prihoditsya pribegat' k novym sushnostyam.\\\

Citata: Rishi ot 31.03.2014 [16:18:19]
\\\Odnako, pod somnenie mozhet popast' OTO, kotoraya i sposobstvovala razvitiyu TBV i v kotoruyu trudnee uzhe chto-to novoe zapihat'.\\\

\\\Davaite vse-taki fakty, stavyashie pod somnenie OTO, obsuzhdat' otdel'no.\\\
 


Offlain Dmitrii Vibe

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Re: Fakty, stavyashie pod somnenie teoriyu Bol'shogo Vzryva
Otvet #1052 : Vchera v 16:44:50
\\\Na samom dele, Rishi v kakoi-to stepeni prav. Obsuzhdat' somneniya v Teorii Bol'shogo Vzryva nelepo. Ni odnogo fakta, kotoryi hotya by kraem nahodilsya v protivorechii s etoi teoriei, net i nikogda ne budet. Tema vskore budet zakryta vvidu ee polnoi besperspektivnosti.\\\
 

Onlain Nezvan

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Re: Fakty, stavyashie pod somnenie teoriyu Bol'shogo Vzryva
Otvet #1053 : Vchera v 18:25:14
\\\Segodnya znamenatel'nyi den'. Nakonec-to my uznali oficial'nuyu :police: tochku zreniya nauki ::)\\\
 

Onlain Rishi

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Re: Fakty, stavyashie pod somnenie teoriyu Bol'shogo Vzryva
Otvet #1054 : Vchera v 18:44:38
Citata: Fliegender Holländer ot Vchera v 16:44:50
\\\Tema vskore budet zakryta vvidu ee polnoi besperspektivnosti.\\\
\\\Vot, sovershenno - za.
Topikstarter s nauchnoi tochki zreniya nepravil'no sformuliroval temu obsuzhdeniya.
No vsem kosmologam nado pered nosom povesit' tablichku so slovami N'yutona: "Gipotez ne izmyshlyayu".
V fizike (esli kosmologiyu mozhno kak-to prichislit' k fizicheskoi nauke, a ne, naprimer, k nauchnoi fantastike), konechno, bez gipotez ne oboitis', no kogda fantaziyu pro to chto sluchilos' 13,7 mlrd. let tomu nazad, pytayutsya predstavit' obyvatelyu chut' li ne kak nauchnyi fakt, to eto uzhe perebor. \\\
 
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Offlain Dmitrii Vibe

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Re: Fakty, stavyashie pod somnenie teoriyu Bol'shogo Vzryva
Otvet #1055 : Vchera v 20:44:30
Citata: Rishi ot Vchera v 18:44:38
\\\kogda fantaziyu pro to chto sluchilos' 13,7 mlrd. let tomu nazad, pytayutsya predstavit' obyvatelyu chut' li ne kak nauchnyi fakt, to eto uzhe perebor. \\\

\\\Protivnikam Bol'shogo Vzryva tol'ko i ostaetsya povtoryat' zaklinanie: "Eto fantaziya, eto fantaziya, eto fantaziya!.." No zaklinaniya v nashe vremya ne rabotayut! Ya budu prosit' administratora foruma Harona srazu zhe banit' teh, kto somnevaetsya v Teorii Bol'shogo Vzryva.\\\
 
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Offlain Kostyrko

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Re: Fakty, stavyashie pod somnenie teoriyu Bol'shogo Vzryva
\\\ Otvet #1056 : Segodnya v 11:00:54
Citata Nezvan: Po edinichnomu nablyudeniyu uzhe nauchilis' sobirat' statistiku?\\\

\\\V original'noi stat'e http://arxiv.org/abs/1309.2826 avtory pishut:
Uchityvaya obilie nelinziruyushih galaktik s emissionnymi liniyami, kazhetsya maloveroyatnym sushestvovanie dazhe odnoi sil'no linziruyushei galaktiki v obzore CANDELS-Sized.
(Given the abundance of unlensed emission-line galaxies it was seemingly unlikely that even one strongly lensed version exists within a CANDELS-sized survey).\\\

\\\T.e. issleduetsya nemalaya vyborka ob'ektov, i analiz vypolnyaetsya korrektno, v ramkah sushestvuyushih statisticheskih metodov.\\\
 

Onlain Rishi

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Re: Fakty, stavyashie pod somnenie teoriyu Bol'shogo Vzryva
Otvet #1057 : Segodnya v 17:30:50
Citata: Dmitrii Vibe ot Vchera v 20:44:30
\\\Protivnikam Bol'shogo Vzryva tol'ko i ostaetsya povtoryat' zaklinanie: "Eto fantaziya, eto fantaziya, eto fantaziya!.." No zaklinaniya v nashe vremya ne rabotayut! Ya budu prosit' administratora foruma Harona srazu zhe banit' teh, kto somnevaetsya v Teorii Bol'shogo Vzryva.\\\
\\\Esli protivniki TBV prosto treplyutsya, ne pytayas' obosnovat' svoyu tochku zreniya, to eto mozhno otnesti k nenauke. Esli protivniki TBV pytayutsya oformit' svoyu gipotezu v vide teorii (a dlya etogo nado obyazatel'no imet' vozmozhno obmena mneniyami mezhdu uchenymi), to eto drugaya nauchnaya shkola i popytka ispol'zovat' v etom sluchae administrativnyi resurs - nu eto my uzhe gde-to prohodili: quod licet iovi non licet bovi\\\
 


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Vse gorazdo proshe - kogda banyat al'tov - kotorye v sostoyanii pridumat' i
obosnovat' izmeritel'nye metodiki opirayas' na fizicheskie svoistva - to taki
da - adekvatnyh oproverzhenii uzhe ne budet.
Po toi prichine chto ya naprimer ochen' vnimatel'no podoshel k dannomu voprosu,
i ya bolee chem uveren chto zakryl svoim avtorstvom 75% vozmozhnyh oproverzhenii
dannoi teme, i glupo dazhe ne ponimat' togo chto kolichestvo vozmozhnyh
oproverzhenii - konechno. I esli kto-to vybral 75% samyh prostyh sluchaev,
to eti 75% zakryty, - resheny - navechno al'tami, i ih uzhe ne pridumayut pervymi - relyativisty.


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